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Is this synth feature removed in FW 3.0 ? + off topic discussion

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  • 0
    pbolgerpbolger ChristchurchPosts: 61

    @manateemilitia said:

    And where will I be able to check the absolute value then

    Exactly. And while I'm hearing a lot of rationalization about why we don't "need" 127 steps, I have yet to hear why 50 is so necessary. It's counter-intuitive that the value you can adjust with precision (via shift+whatever) is arbitrarily scaled to 50 while the value you can only adjust without precision has more value intervals.

    If you adjust the value using the normal parameter setting you have a choice of 50 values, which are shown on the display. If you set the gold knob to change the value there are more (either 128, or ... a lot of) possible values, but the display can't show anything finer than 50. So the sound reflects the actual value, but the display shows a rough approximation.

    Make sense?

  • 0
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 982

    @moosiqpipl said:

    @Icoustik said:
    See my reply above

    And you really mean to map a gold knob whenever I want to fine tune a parameter (e.g. envelope stages, or whatever...)? And where will I be able to check the absolute value then?
    Seems quite unconvenient to me.

    I didn't design it, and I have no control over it, so there's no point in complaining to me :) But your feedback is surely noted

    ~ Distinguished Delugate ᕕ( ◎_◎)ᕗ

  • -3
    StromerStromer GermanyPosts: 55

    For me the message from Synthstrom is clear. Its not our goal to offer an instrument that works in a professional environment with high class midi-controler like LinnStrument, Novation Launch Control or Akai MIDImix. Instead we built a nice blinking box which you can take to the park for having fun in the sun.

  • 0
    moosiqpiplmoosiqpipl Frankfurt am Main, GermanyPosts: 23

    @Icoustik said:
    I didn't design it, and I have no control over it, so there's no point in complaining to me :) But your feedback is surely noted

    I haven't complained to you at all ;)
    It is quite simple: You proposed something between explanation and workaround - presumimg I wouldn't understand. I gave you feedback. That's it ;)

    No offense intended.

    ((qp))

  • 0
    manateemilitiamanateemilitia Austin, TXPosts: 69

    @pbolger said:

    Make sense?

    Yeah, I understand—I just don't like it. I would like to be able to adjust the envelopes (specifically) using the display with a fine level of control.

  • 2
    amiga909amiga909 Central EuropePosts: 1,078
    edited October 2019

    @manateemilitia said:

    @pbolger said:

    Make sense?

    Yeah, I understand—I just don't like it. I would like to be able to adjust the envelopes (specifically) using the display with a fine level of control.

    absolutely, display values are one thing, 50, 128, 256, 100000 what is „right“? but envelopes are far away from what they could be in a „high end“ sampler (which the Deluge is), i wish since day 1 there was more control for short sounds http://forums.synthstrom.com/discussion/1189/envelopes-decay-time-finer-adjustment

    Post edited by amiga909 on
  • 3
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 982

    @Stromer said:
    For me the message from Synthstrom is clear. Its not our goal to offer an instrument that works in a professional environment with high class midi-controler like LinnStrument, Novation Launch Control or Akai MIDImix. Instead we built a nice blinking box which you can take to the park for having fun in the sun.

    That's simply not the case :) And quite a negative and shortsighted comment. The Deluge was launched as a kickstarter project only 2 years ago, it was never pre-conceived that it would be exactly what it is now, or what it will be in the future - its an active, ongoing and also co-creative process.
    Deluge is not sold as a finished, finite box, its more like a lifetime software license to a work of art in progress.
    Which is also already highly capable. I use my Deluge with 'high-class' midi controllers, in a professional environment, and I do not feel the same way as you. Sure, there's always room for improvement and there is a lot of further potential, but to equate it with a toy is simply ridiculous.

    ~ Distinguished Delugate ᕕ( ◎_◎)ᕗ

  • 0

    @moosiqpipl said:

    @Icoustik said:
    About the 128 vs 50 steps, Rohan just confirmed that the parameters do indeed have 128 distinct midi values even though the Deluge deals in 50. The logic behind that is simply less numbers to scroll through with the select knob - the gold knobs still deal in the full range.

    Are you serious?? Reducing a more or less standard resolution to rather uncommon values in favor of the users laziness in regard of using the select knob for scrolling is not a real advantage compared to other gear still sticking to that resolution. Come on ;)

    I don't find it unbelievable. You have three custom slots for golden knobs so if you want to fine tune a given parameter just assign it to one of them. In all other cases you an use the Select knob and it's "quick" way to set the parameter values :)

  • 0
    amiga909amiga909 Central EuropePosts: 1,078
    edited October 2019

    @Icoustik said:
    was launched as a kickstarter project only 2 years ago

    well said Icoustik, just for the record, it is now almost 3 years :)

    Post edited by amiga909 on
  • 0
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 982

    @rudolphrapid said:

    @moosiqpipl said:

    @Icoustik said:
    About the 128 vs 50 steps, Rohan just confirmed that the parameters do indeed have 128 distinct midi values even though the Deluge deals in 50. The logic behind that is simply less numbers to scroll through with the select knob - the gold knobs still deal in the full range.

    Are you serious?? Reducing a more or less standard resolution to rather uncommon values in favor of the users laziness in regard of using the select knob for scrolling is not a real advantage compared to other gear still sticking to that resolution. Come on ;)

    I don't find it unbelievable. You have three custom slots for golden knobs so if you want to fine tune a given parameter just assign it to one of them. In all other cases you an use the Select knob and it's "quick" way to set the parameter values :)

    True, also any of the gold knobs can be remapped, not just the 'custom' ones :)

    ~ Distinguished Delugate ᕕ( ◎_◎)ᕗ

  • 0
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 982

    @amiga909 said:

    @Icoustik said:
    was launched as a kickstarter project only 2 years ago

    well said Icoustik, just for the record, it is now almost 3 years :)

    Almost ;)

    ~ Distinguished Delugate ᕕ( ◎_◎)ᕗ

  • 2
    LarsDanielLarsDaniel DenmarkPosts: 21

    To return this thread to its original topic:
    Before 3.0, one could have two clips playing the exact same synth? But you removed this feature?
    The reason I call it a feature is: Then you can have notes in one clip, and CC data in another. And why is that a feature you may ask. Because setting one clip to different length (e.g. 13/16 vs 16/16) is a very, very good tool to have, if you want to create sounds that live and breathe. Anyone familiar with modular synthesis will know what I mean, and bemourn the demise of this wonderful creative tool, that went down the drain.

    The fact that nobody has mentioned this in this thread, tells me that I am probably a bit alone with wishes for features that are not straight 4/4 mainstream, but it just saddens me, that something wonderful was killed for no good reason (as I see it).
    And if you think "experimental" music is dead, may I remind you of the completely insane growth there has been in eurorack modular. Even a relatively mainstream product like Arturia Beatstep Pro has a drum sequencer when every row can have its own number of steps. A feature I would love to have in Deluge, but I am not even going to make that a feature request, as other thing (like proper support for other time signatures than 4/4) are far more important.

  • 1
    amiga909amiga909 Central EuropePosts: 1,078

    @LarsDaniel said:
    To return this thread to its original topic:
    Before 3.0, one could have two clips playing the exact same synth? But you removed this feature?

    It was never possible to play clips of the same instrument simultaneously. Please refer to the manual regarding cloned clips.

    The reason I call it a feature is: Then you can have notes in one clip, and CC data in another. And why is that a feature you may ask. Because setting one clip to different length (e.g. 13/16 vs 16/16) is a very, very good tool to have, if you want to create sounds that live and breathe. Anyone familiar with modular synthesis will know what I mean, and bemourn the demise of this wonderful creative tool, that went down the drain.

    you are too dramatic 😀yeah i am all in for more automation control. for me, having an automation view first is more important though http://forums.synthstrom.com/discussion/899/step-automation-view-automation-drawing-track-long-envelope-drawing#latest
    there is loads to explore on the Deluge, imho especially for modular folks.

    • you can actually apply a 13/16 modulation clip on a 16/16 instrument clip with a workaround.
    • sidechain compressor can be described as global modulation source. means, 1 clip applies its events to many other clips.
    • LFO1 can modulate ARP rate
    • ..
  • 1
    LarsDanielLarsDaniel DenmarkPosts: 21

    Haha, yes I got a bit dramatic. And for no reason, as I understand one could never do that thing anyway.
    Oh well. I will try to focus on the stuff that works for me on the deluge.

  • 0
    LarsDanielLarsDaniel DenmarkPosts: 21

    “LFO1 can modulate ARP rate”

    Wait, what? How?
    Ah, you are talking about the rate. Not the sync division, right? (Not having access to the arp sync division via a gold knob is another missed opportunity, imho.)

  • 0
    amiga909amiga909 Central EuropePosts: 1,078

    @LarsDaniel said:
    “LFO1 can modulate ARP rate”

    Wait, what? How?
    Ah, you are talking about the rate. Not the sync division, right? (Not having access to the arp sync division via a gold knob is another missed opportunity, imho.)

    Yes, sync param needs to be OFF. And yeah, currently all "list type" params cannot be automated or learned. Sure thing I'd love to automate and modulate ALL params if it doesnt harm Rohans sanity too much :)

  • 0
    LarsDanielLarsDaniel DenmarkPosts: 21

    And about modulation: I love how fluent it is to assign and set a level on a modulation. In general the synth is a joy to program considering you only use one dial.

  • 0
    funktreefunktree NYPosts: 128
    edited March 2020

    @Stromer said:
    For me the message from Synthstrom is clear. Its not our goal to offer an instrument that works in a professional environment with high class midi-controler like LinnStrument, Novation Launch Control or Akai MIDImix. Instead we built a nice blinking box which you can take to the park for having fun in the sun.

    I cannot believe that Synthstrom would say something like this.. Can you point me to the source ? All the CC / CV functionality already implemented ... it's that just for a park experience ?
    I can produce a pro song with this device and it's capabilities. Deluge IS a pro device. The quote above seems "oximoron-ic" to me

    Post edited by funktree on
  • 0
    VJFranzKVJFranzK Los Angeles USABeta Tester Posts: 129

    Most of all, I think it's meant to be a main sequencer for several items of pro gear, MIDI, analog w CV etc.
    secondarily are it's internal sounds, which are frequently expanded and very customizable.
    Third, It's MIDI input options are quite extensive, and they keep expanding those too.

    Gear that gets "frozen" with no OS updates, or held back with artificial limitations? That's more of a toy.

    Music, Visuals, Reviews of Synths, Drum Machines, Apps
    YouTube: VJFranzK

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