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Song view should work like Ableton Live's session view

79

Today's song view is a bit of waste of real estate. Every track gets a whole row, and there's not much utility in that. Yes, you do see the track length which is nice, but the price of that is, after 8 rows, you're out of space and need to start scrolling.

A better implementation would be like Ableton Live's Session view, where each column represents a track and each row a scene. Each pad would then represent an entire track. Then there could be no need for confusing colors to designate which track belongs to which session. Rather, the "Audition" buttons would be used to launch an entire row

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Comments

  • 0

    I really like this suggestion! :)

  • 2
    maimai
    edited October 2017

    Exactly this I thought since I received the Deluge. Horizontal rows should be scenes and vertical rows should be tracks. With this you have a much better overview (about 16 tracks at once and less of this color confusion). The current song view is a bit unclear and needs a lot of space on the grid (track doubles, variations etc.).

    I would love to see this.. :)

    Post edited by mai on
  • 0
    Yeah that's a great idea!
  • 0
    DocRomplerDocRompler Pittsburgh PA

    This is an excellent idea. It would make it a lot easier to build longer compositions in a more efficient and less confusing way. The color coded audition pad system is really limiting when it comes to setting up additional scenes, especially if you want certain parts to keep playing. The only way to retain a track in a new scene is to duplicate it and this only adds to the track stack. There should be a more dynamic way to go about this, and this idea seems like a winner.

  • 1

    Yes, please! The current "song mode" is so confusing. We have to duplicate so many tracks...

    The way Ableton does the session view (by the way: it's not just Ableton, many other companies have a similar structure) would be ideal for the 16x8 grid of the Deluge!

  • 0

    the current song mode is more like a color coded "group solo" mode with an option for #repeats. Just an observation.

  • 0
    kinakina New Zealand

    I'm like 99% sure that Rohan and the crew would have a lawsuit on their hands if they took the session view from from ableton live.

    I'd be super keen on being proven wrong though, and it would be a powerful asset to the Deluge's capabilities!

  • -1

    Someone prove him wrong!!

  • 2
    edited October 2017

    Hi Kina. As I wrote there are many companies which are already using exactly the same method like Ableton's session view. So this seems very established and wouldn't be a problem.

    This feature could be a dream for performing (with a much better overview like now)... maybe an additional arrangement view so that we can build an fixed arrangement later, too?

    Post edited by Volt on
  • 0
    MyrkMyrk Taunton, UK
    edited November 2017

    So vertical axis is tracks, and horizontal axis is time? I'm just wondering though, how would you know the length of each track you are playing? Would each square on the light pads be 1 bar? Or would it be as it is existing (except with the ability to zoom out further than the length of the largest track)? If you had unusual time sigs it might be difficult to know many many reps there are without having the existing song view... just a thought. I like this idea though - I guess there should be a way to jump between the 2 song modes?.

    Post edited by Myrk on
  • 0
    FASTFAST California

    A KIT of Song sections in other words.

  • 0

    ooh i really like to see 16 tracks at once. and beneath all the different clips to play and improving structures. :)

  • 0
    danieldaniel new zealand

    I was really hoping song view would be like Abletons arrangement view. Then you could visually layout compositions giving fully sequenced playback. This would not be a huge leap from the current song view layout, but would add massive utility.

  • 0

    yes please, makes it easier on melon heads like myself

  • 6

    I like the general idea, but suggest to keep the horizontal track orientation. This keeps the mute button column functional and avoids a 90° rotation of a project depending on the view. Let's rather provide a "super view" in which different 'versions' of a track (song sections) are represented by the horizontal buttons of a track – like in Bitwig or GarageBand iOS.

  • 3
    trijammertrijammer Auckland
    edited January 5

    I'd really like to see some implementation of this idea. I feel like I can't really 'program' in a song in song view with complex changes, aside from duplicating and creating sections which can't really be automated easily. This would enable programming a complete song, without having to 'do it live' every time.

    Could potentially be reached via SHIFT + SONG for this alternative song / section programming view.

    I agree with it tacharon's suggestion of keeping tracks horizontal, so time still scrolls left to right. I'm imagining a FruityLoops style song view, basically like a condensed version of the current song view (as if zoomed right out), but where tracks can be brought in or repeated at different points on a horizontal timeline. Basically you can have multiple instances of a track on each horizontal row, spread out over time (left to right), and you could alternate between tracks easily.

    A track could still have its total length indicated by a bright light to start and dim lights for the remainder (could still be zoomed in / out but default could be 1 bar). It'd also be great with this style to be able to 'trim' an instance of a track short if needed for some stage in the song.

    Post edited by trijammer on
  • 0
    amiga909amiga909 Switzerland

    upvote. great idea about changing x/y axis, dont know if this will change..
    improvements to song/section is number one on my wishlist. I feel Deluge does better on song structures that have rather independent sections, maybe more like a pop song (chorus, verse, intro, ..), for song structures (lets say common for electronic music) where you have a lot of scenes that dont differ much, I end up cluttering the matrix very quickly with many clone duplicates. one way for improvement could be the mentioned ableton-ish way and see 16 tracks at once. i also like the idea of „manual tracks“ or a master section mentioned elsewhere, so you can have tracks that can play in multiple sections, and dont stop on section change, unlike the shared mode. dont know ..pretty sure others have put more thoughts on this topic than me.

  • 0
    FilpalFilpal Paris, France

    +100

  • 0

    +1!!

  • 1
    SaharTheGreatSaharTheGreat United States

    Maybe if we go with the horizontal view, we could have a way to split the grid in half vertically, so on the left half you have 8 tracks with 8 different clips, and on the right you have 8 more tracks with 8 clips. This will allow a more maximized number of tracks visible while still keeping the horizontal view if the majority prefer that.

  • 3
    SaharTheGreatSaharTheGreat United States

    Though personally, I would prefer each instrument having its own column myself just so more is visible since in my workflow I am more likely to use 16 instruments than 16 patterns of the same instrument.

  • 0
    LjkLjk Austin Tx USA

    +1

  • 2
    mpiecorampiecora United States

    @tacharon said:
    I like the general idea, but suggest to keep the horizontal track orientation. This keeps the mute button column functional and avoids a 90° rotation of a project depending on the view. Let's rather provide a "super view" in which different 'versions' of a track (song sections) are represented by the horizontal buttons of a track – like in Bitwig or GarageBand iOS.

    Yes! I use Bitwig and your idea is a stellar one!

  • 0
    VJFranzKVJFranzK Los Angeles USA

    Why does anyone want a "song mode" anyway? This is our escape from the DAW way of doing things.

    Music, Visuals, Reviews of Synths, Drum Machines, Apps
    YouTube: VJFranzK

  • 1

    For some it's simply an escape from DAW-on-a-PC way of doing things :)

  • 0
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • 1
    EarthCryEarthCry Asheville NC

    Yeah i agree unless there is to be some kind of clip chopping functionality in the future, (like mlrv or something) I dont see a reason or the logic in burning up all the grid real estate in song mode to represent any given pattern. Why not have just one button on the grid represent whether or not the pattern will play? That way we can sequence buttons and have an overview of the entire composition.

  • 0
    tacharontacharon Hamburg

    I agree with EarthCry: the current Song view allows already to see the relative length of different tracks. The "Super" view suggested here is instead about simultaneously seeing all (well, up to 16 without scrolling) patterns per track, each represented only by one pad. I also agree with trijammer that this Super view should be activated via Shift-Song. Further thoughts:

    • It should be possible to copy patterns by holding the source pad and simultaneously pressing an empty destination pad on the same track – and to delete patterns by holding a populated pad and pressing Save/Delete.
    • Holding Shift while pressing a pattern pad should switch to that pattern immediately at the current position of the playing pattern – instead of waiting for the previous pattern on that track to reach its end, which would be expected when not holding Shift.
    • Triggering an entire column of patterns should be possible by holding the up/down arrow dial while pressing any pattern pad (again, waiting for the longest track pattern to finish, or immediately when additionally holding Shift).
  • 1
    tacharontacharon Hamburg

    BTW, considering that there is an older parallel discussion with currently 38 supporters (http://forums.synthstrom.com/discussion/194/song-mode-sections-palette-to-draw-on-the-grid), I think this is the single most important request for the Deluge!

  • -1
    n00bn00b Space
    edited May 2

    I do understand the suggestion, though I like the way its presented now.
    As an example: in the song mode you can see a 1-bar track playing twice while a 4-bar track will only be halfway.

    I would really dislike to lose the song mode as it is, it's a sequencer and not a DAW right?
    I'm I the only one here that prefers it like it is?

    An option to arrange song sections would be nice though.

    Post edited by n00b on

    'Bad sound kills good music!'

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