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Tip: Better envelopes through modulation.

6
LegsMechanicalLegsMechanical United StatesBeta Tester Posts: 21

I keep reading that the Ds envelopes leave people wanting. Short max attacks, difficulty finding the sweet spot for decay, etc.. Not so.

Need a longer attack? Modulate the envelope positively with its own attack.

Snappier decay? Modulate the envelope negatively with its own decay.

This has really opened up the synth engine for me. Since I learned this tip, I’ve had zero complaints about the envelopes.

Comments

  • 0
    volstehvolsteh CroatiaPosts: 275

    100+

    πŸ…½πŸ…ΎπŸ†…πŸ…ΈπŸ…²πŸ…΄ πŸ…³πŸ…΄πŸ…»πŸ†„πŸ…ΆπŸ…ΈπŸ…ΎπŸ…½πŸ…ΈπŸ†‚πŸ†ƒ?

  • 1
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 952

    @LegsMechanical said:
    I keep reading that the Ds envelopes leave people wanting. Short max attacks, difficulty finding the sweet spot for decay, etc.. Not so.

    Need a longer attack? Modulate the envelope positively with its own attack.

    Snappier decay? Modulate the envelope negatively with its own decay.

    This has really opened up the synth engine for me. Since I learned this tip, I’ve had zero complaints about the envelopes.

    Whoa, never thought of this before, I've only tried using negative decay as attack for longer attack time.
    Very nice! Thanks :)

    ~ Distinguished Delugate α••( β—Ž_β—Ž)α•—

  • 0
    KenoubiKenoubi United StatesPosts: 46

    This is extremely useful. (I discovered it too, but it's probably super non-obvious to Deluge newbies. The manual should maybe point it out, or there should be a "stuff the manual doesn't tell you that you need to actually use the Deluge effectively" somewhere.) Note that it does change the envelope's shape, not just its length. That might or might not be what you want, and if the mod depth is low enough it may not make enough difference to matter, but worth being aware of. How much effect different amounts of modulation have is one of the dozens of things I'd like to test and be able to quantify about the Deluge synth engine...

  • 2
    Affectionate_Bee_781Affectionate_Bee_781 United StatesBeta Tester Posts: 76

    @LegsMechanical said:
    I keep reading that the Ds envelopes leave people wanting. Short max attacks, difficulty finding the sweet spot for decay, etc.. Not so.

    Need a longer attack? Modulate the envelope positively with its own attack.

    Snappier decay? Modulate the envelope negatively with its own decay.

    This has really opened up the synth engine for me. Since I learned this tip, I’ve had zero complaints about the envelopes.

    Awesome tip :) You can get some funky curves for sure. I think it may make more sense to say:

    Modulate the attack positively with its own envelope.

    Modulate the decay negatively with its own envelope.

  • 1
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 952

    @Affectionate_Bee_781 said:
    Awesome tip :) You can get some funky curves for sure. I think it may make more sense to say:

    Modulate the attack positively with its own envelope.

    Modulate the decay negatively with its own envelope.

    Right!

    ~ Distinguished Delugate α••( β—Ž_β—Ž)α•—

  • 0
    iofiof SpainPosts: 1
    edited March 30

    Very good tips! May be there are any tip to increase the release of a synth? I've tested this idea but i could not increase the time defined by the 50 release value.
    Thanks!

    Post edited by iof on
  • 0
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 952

    @iof said:
    Very good tips! May be there are any tip to increase the release of a synth? I've tested this idea but i could not increase the time defined by the 50 release value.
    Thanks!

    Sorry, doesn't seem to be a way to do that currently

    ~ Distinguished Delugate α••( β—Ž_β—Ž)α•—

  • 0
    neilbaldwinneilbaldwin UKPosts: 137

    @Icoustik said:

    @iof said:
    Very good tips! May be there are any tip to increase the release of a synth? I've tested this idea but i could not increase the time defined by the 50 release value.
    Thanks!

    Sorry, doesn't seem to be a way to do that currently

    You could post in the Suggesti.... oh, never mind.

  • 0
    KenoubiKenoubi United StatesPosts: 46

    @Icoustik said:

    @iof said:
    Very good tips! May be there are any tip to increase the release of a synth? I've tested this idea but i could not increase the time defined by the 50 release value.
    Thanks!

    Sorry, doesn't seem to be a way to do that currently

    Interesting... modulating the release generally seems to work, but it acts as though there's a hard cap at the value represented by 50. I wonder if that's done on purpose to keep notes from piling up and eventually causing processor overload (and/or just sounding really bad and never going away on their own, since the Deluge lets notes ring out even after you stop playing).

  • 0
    neilbaldwinneilbaldwin UKPosts: 137

    It is possible to affect the Release time to exend it. Try this:

    Env 1: 0,20,50,25 (example)
    Env 2: 0,0,0,25

    Then set the Release of Env 1 to be modulated by Env 2 at a depth of -50

  • 0
    neilbaldwinneilbaldwin UKPosts: 137

    Hmmmm, ignore me. You can modulate the Release time in the way I described but nothing seems to make it last longer than 50 (about 27 seconds).

  • 0
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 952

    @Kenoubi said:
    Interesting... modulating the release generally seems to work, but it acts as though there's a hard cap at the value represented by 50. I wonder if that's done on purpose to keep notes from piling up and eventually causing processor overload (and/or just sounding really bad and never going away on their own, since the Deluge lets notes ring out even after you stop playing).

    Indeed, stacking voices will eventually cause CPU overload :)

    ~ Distinguished Delugate α••( β—Ž_β—Ž)α•—

  • 0
    volstehvolsteh CroatiaPosts: 275

    @iof said:
    Very good tips! May be there are any tip to increase the release of a synth? I've tested this idea but i could not increase the time defined by the 50 release value.
    Thanks!

    Test this: Attack 0, Decay 50, Sustain 0, Release 50. I get around 50 seconds of release this way. In this case the Decay amount controls release length. As soon as you change Sustain to 1 or release to 49 this stops working.

    πŸ…½πŸ…ΎπŸ†…πŸ…ΈπŸ…²πŸ…΄ πŸ…³πŸ…΄πŸ…»πŸ†„πŸ…ΆπŸ…ΈπŸ…ΎπŸ…½πŸ…ΈπŸ†‚πŸ†ƒ?

  • 0
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 952

    @volsteh said:

    Test this: Attack 0, Decay 50, Sustain 0, Release 50. I get around 50 seconds of release this way. In this case the Decay amount controls release length. As soon as you change Sustain to 1 or release to 49 this stops working.

    Nice 1! In Cut mode, right?

    ~ Distinguished Delugate α••( β—Ž_β—Ž)α•—

  • 0
    volstehvolsteh CroatiaPosts: 275

    @Icoustik said:

    @volsteh said:

    Test this: Attack 0, Decay 50, Sustain 0, Release 50. I get around 50 seconds of release this way. In this case the Decay amount controls release length. As soon as you change Sustain to 1 or release to 49 this stops working.

    Nice 1! In Cut mode, right?

    Tested this on synth, probably same on sample on cut yes, think I don't have a 50 sec sample patch.

    πŸ…½πŸ…ΎπŸ†…πŸ…ΈπŸ…²πŸ…΄ πŸ…³πŸ…΄πŸ…»πŸ†„πŸ…ΆπŸ…ΈπŸ…ΎπŸ…½πŸ…ΈπŸ†‚πŸ†ƒ?

  • 1
    volstehvolsteh CroatiaPosts: 275

    Just found out this, maybe is known but is news for me, that if I patch env1 to osc level the volume gets amplified, i used to add voices to achieve this wasting cpu lol.

    πŸ…½πŸ…ΎπŸ†…πŸ…ΈπŸ…²πŸ…΄ πŸ…³πŸ…΄πŸ…»πŸ†„πŸ…ΆπŸ…ΈπŸ…ΎπŸ…½πŸ…ΈπŸ†‚πŸ†ƒ?

  • 1
    volstehvolsteh CroatiaPosts: 275

    @LegsMechanical said:
    I keep reading that the Ds envelopes leave people wanting. Short max attacks, difficulty finding the sweet spot for decay, etc.. Not so.

    Need a longer attack? Modulate the envelope positively with its own attack.

    Snappier decay? Modulate the envelope negatively with its own decay.

    This has really opened up the synth engine for me. Since I learned this tip, I’ve had zero complaints about the envelopes.

    Another viable modulation source is lfo2, then rate and shape are additional controls

    πŸ…½πŸ…ΎπŸ†…πŸ…ΈπŸ…²πŸ…΄ πŸ…³πŸ…΄πŸ…»πŸ†„πŸ…ΆπŸ…ΈπŸ…ΎπŸ…½πŸ…ΈπŸ†‚πŸ†ƒ?

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