That's no really what i meant. For example, some ppl ask for something technical about sampling / resampling. But the deluge has just one 1 dac, so it can't do a certain thing. If you say this (and some other things) upfront, ppl don't / shouldn't ask / complain for some features it can't do because of this limitation. Which saves you guys some headaches when reading.
This is not about waiting for feature which might not come, just to explain some limitations.
OK, I get ya, though yeah, it feels odd to make a statement about what isn't possible through hardware, haha, its an odd precedent, not sure one I've ever seen before.. We get asked a lot to split the headphone/stereo outs, route the audio through the gates, make the pads velocity sensitive, switch in a different screen, etc...all of which we explain isn't possible.
Maybe I might just put a few of those things in our FAQ....seems like the right place to do so? I think perhaps rather than issuing a formal thing about it.
I'll take a look through the requests for anything else in that vein and think about other stuff people have asked over the years that isn't possibly given the hardware configuration and throw that in our FAQ. Cheers for the idea.
@Ian_Jorgensen said:
Something we've been wanting to do for a while as a company is wean off our reliance on Facebook as a way of keeping in touch with our community.
Though we will continue to use Facebook, we will be reducing the time spent on it and making some major changes outside of it.
Great news! I closed my fb account last year and the Deluge pages were those I missed the most (especially regarding beta testing!). Thanks a lot for this move and long live the forum!
What I would LOVE to see from Synthstrom is a "major" Deluge firmware update that has NO flagship feature launches... no handling of audio tracks / addition of audio looper, no wavetable synthesis, no MPE, and nothing of the kind... lifestyle improvements only, making what is already there easier to see, easier to understand, easier to control.
I get it -- that's not as much fun to program, it's not as much fun (or as easy) to market, it might even feel like the release "didn't really do anything". I don't even know what changes should actually make it into that release. But I bet people would end up WAY happier actually using the Deluge. In a way that "just take a chill pill" isn't going to accomplish.
This. Absolutely this!
Also, I pretty much agree with everything you've said in this topic. Will have a proper read and comment but just want to pick up on your attempt to distinguish between a 'bug fix' and what in the past I've called 'feature fix'. I think this is the critical point for me. I have TONS of ideas of what could be added to the Deluge to, IMHO, make it better. But I'm not so vocal about a lot of them because it's important to balance what your personal requirements are against all other users (and the development team). However that's not what you (and I) are talking about and I think there's a little disengenuity from Ian here trying to lump 'bug fixes' and 'existing feature fixes' and 'suggestions' in the same pot.
Let me use a car analogy. Bear with me 😆
Say you bought a new car:
If it sets itself on fire when you start it: bug fix.
If it has a radio but it will only tune to Russian stations and only plays at 10% volume: feature fix.
If it has a 1.0L engine and you want a 3.0L engine: feature request.
If it goes in the garage for new tyres and comes out with a sun roof and the old tyres still on: you sent it to Synthstrom Garage (joking!)
@Ian_Jorgensen said:
Sorry Kenn we won't be sharing our dev plans, for many reasons.
Many people just don't understand the time dev takes,
Some of us do though Ian so that kind of statement doesn't come across well. Sorry!
We just want to chat and enjoy the Deluge
I'm not sure there's a single Deluge user who doesn't want to enjoy the Deluge and creating with it.
(but) people aren't having the best experience.
Ah. Maybe that's the problem! 🤫
We did it to ourselves We built an awesome machine and awesome community filled with people who care intensely about it, we love the passion that people have, but we also just want to feel like we can hang out with our community and not feel constant pressure.
As a fella once said "If you build it, they will come".
Synthstrom's ethos to continued development of the Deluge is fucking brilliant, 100%. Big manufacturers could learn a thing or two.
Lets instead talk about stuff like playing shows in this new world, how to make great presets, how best to release songs, how to master for release, how to perform live on a deluge, how to speed up writing in the arranger...
Those things you listed. We all want to do those. Some of us are getting tripped up while trying to do those things by things that need addressing. Can you not see that Ian?
Personally I feel that so many people are so hung up on a feature or two that they're letting the world go by
If you have a broken window in your house, you can still live in it, sure. After a while you get used to it but each time the wind blows in a certain direction it gets real cold so you have to wear a jacket and the wind keeps blowing out your scented candles. You can ignore the window mostly but it doesn't stop being an issue. You'd fix it yourself but the landlord won't let you. You've asked him to fix it and he hasn't replied though he has painted your front door yellow.
(I hope you take that in good nature, as intended Ian)
I now realise the trap I have fallen in. Haha, we want to stop talking about features, but now we're having to talk about why we've stopping talking about features, haha, which is more or less just as energy draining.
I hope people can just accept this is the way it has to be, for our sanity, for our enjoyment of the project, for us to continue to remain passionate. We're making a decision which will strengthen the longevity of this project.
Imagine you released your passion project and then for the next four years had people telling you all the things that could be better with it. Haha, perhaps after being told 1300 times you could do better (that's just in this ONE place - not to mention over email, on social media, on FB, on dozens of other forums), you might want a little break? That everybody is right about this thing that you made, except you?
Sometimes you just need to block out the noise, take a deep breath, remember why you were here in the first place and put your head down. We hope that people can just respect our wishes for just a year or so of letting us focus on things and talk about literally anything else, haha, except what bugs them about this thing we make.
There will always be things that people disagree with Rohan's decisions on - trying to speculate on what he is doing. I believe he has been proven right over and over again. The Deluge remains a killer tool and lifechanging for so many - it is him sticking to doing things at his pace and in the right order that makes this device different to so much else and so important to so many - in many cases what people see are its foibles are actually its strengths. We just hope that people will trust in Rohan's vision and they'll let him steer the ship and they can either hoon off in some lifeboats, or enjoy the rocky trip and hope there are enough vomit bags
Btw, If it wasn't clear, haha, I'm going to be removing posts requesting features, including in this thread:) will start with the iron fist of request deletion tomorrow
If we could chat about this face-to-face over a pint....we'd be drunk and they'd be closing the bar
I do understand where you're coming from but it doesn't mean I agree. You know how I feel, I know how you feel and, despite evidence, I have better ways to spend my time than raking the virtual coals.
Haha, I've had many of these chats with people in bars. When I'm out touring with the Deluge (ahh, the good ol' days), it was always interesting to see how long people could hold off before being "I just need this ONE thing, and THEN my Deluge will be perfect", haha. I would sub-consciously time how long it would take...
haha, you have no idea the love I felt for people who would instead just talk to me about other shit, or maybe tell me the things about the Deluge that do work for them.
@Ian_Jorgensen said:
Btw, If it wasn't clear, haha, I'm going to be removing posts requesting features, including in this thread:) will start with the iron fist of request deletion tomorrow
Obviously it's your forum and I can't make you do anything, but please do not delete any of my posts. What I said is important to me, and any actual features mentioned in this thread were solely as examples. I'm not planning to continue mentioning any of them elsewhere on the forums while this policy remains in effect, but for the points I was trying to make, there was no reasonable way to make them without mentioning anything specific that trips people up.
If after reading that you're not willing to leave what I wrote as is, please delete the minimal amount of text that you're willing to and add a note to the effect that you did that.
@Ian_Jorgensen said:
Haha, I've had many of these chats with people in bars. When I'm out touring with the Deluge (ahh, the good ol' days), it was always interesting to see how long people could hold off before being "I just need this ONE thing, and THEN my Deluge will be perfect", haha. I would sub-consciously time how long it would take...
haha, you have no idea the love I felt for people who would instead just talk to me about other shit, or maybe tell me the things about the Deluge that do work for them.
Its the small things
I can see you have the patience of a saint in this situation. I love my Deluge, it's miles more capable than anything else on the market and I'm looking forward to seeing what comes next.
I do think even a vague project roadmap of what is being worked on for the next year could be useful just for general interest. But I can totally understand how feature requests spiral.
If it means anything, it seems that you've already given so much since the project started, it's almost definitely a compliment that people are so vocal to you. Although again, en masse I can understand how it wouldn't feel like that.
Either way, I'm new to my Deluge and even if it never got another feature added, it's incredible and I'm having fun just making music again after a long time away.
@Ian_Jorgensen said:
Btw, If it wasn't clear, haha, I'm going to be removing posts requesting features, including in this thread:) will start with the iron fist of request deletion tomorrow
Obviously it's your forum and I can't make you do anything, but please do not delete any of my posts.
Please just edit your posts and remove any mention of any features. Even examples. Anything like that.
This thread could become something people use as a reference and it's only fair that it sets an example. So yeah. You can edit your posts to remove anything like that.
@Ian_Jorgensen said:
Btw, If it wasn't clear, haha, I'm going to be removing posts requesting features, including in this thread:) will start with the iron fist of request deletion tomorrow
Obviously it's your forum and I can't make you do anything, but please do not delete any of my posts.
Please just edit your posts and remove any mention of any features. Even examples. Anything like that.
This thread could become something people use as a reference and it's only fair that it sets an example. So yeah. You can edit your posts to remove anything like that.
I edited my first post by deleting some of the content, replacing it with an explanation.
I do not think anything else I wrote in this thread can plausibly be interpreted as a feature request. I don't think you actually meant "any mention of any features" -- that would mean I can't mention, e.g., wavetable synthesis, even though it's already shown in a published teaser video. Being even more hyper-literal than that, I wouldn't even be able to mention features that already exist on the Deluge as it is right now, which is clearly nonsensical.
It's pointless (and actually probably even more frustrating for you) for us to have a meta-meta-argument over what is or isn't banned in the forums. If I'm not allowed to say (e.g.) that I'd love to see a release that focuses on making what is already there more usable, rather than adding more stuff, there is no way for me to make that point without making it. So it's up to you, but my request (regarding what is still there of my first post, and regarding the remaining posts) remains the same. Maybe I'm wrong anyway, @neilbaldwin made the same points I did without mentioning any Deluge features at all... the only problem is it's not obvious from reading his posts why any of that is applicable to the Deluge.
@Ian_Jorgensen said:
Btw, If it wasn't clear, haha, I'm going to be removing posts requesting features, including in this thread:) will start with the iron fist of request deletion tomorrow
Obviously it's your forum and I can't make you do anything, but please do not delete any of my posts.
Please just edit your posts and remove any mention of any features. Even examples. Anything like that.
This thread could become something people use as a reference and it's only fair that it sets an example. So yeah. You can edit your posts to remove anything like that.
I edited my first post by deleting some of the content, replacing it with an explanation.
I do not think anything else I wrote in this thread can plausibly be interpreted as a feature request. I don't think you actually meant "any mention of any features" -- t
Only requesting stuff not currently implemented is what we are restricting from these forums, haha, sorry if my flippancy didn't make that clear, it feels that it's clearly understood, even if I don't clarify every time....and cheers
think this is a big and needed move. this forum has been a void of activity and usually, creativity. even the way people are commenting on this thread.... it’s so entitled and bizarre.
just wanted to say, every time i plug in my deluge, i get something cool out of it. i played a show with the deluge, and it was fun, flexible and beyond capable. would be amazing if there was a place to geek out about that.
thanks dudes.
Making requests for new features has understandably become somewhat of an "expectation"-- I dig it. We've been able to for four years now? I also get that the Synthstrom team has a plan and that our suggestions won't contribute positively to that plan (right now).
I'm perfectly fine with NOT begging for the new bell or whistle, personally. I got my arranger and alphanumerics. Those were really the things I personally felt I needed to be as productive as possible--- but even before that, there wasn't a time since I bought the machine that I WOULD NOT use it because it didn't have a particular feature. I don't think anybody really does that. We buy the machine it is today and we do with it what we can.
I for one am happy to have the last "groovebox" I'll ever need.
And as far as having to bump on over to the Synthstrom site-- I need to pry myself away facebook anyway. Those fools gave me THREE DAYS for saying "really, really dumb"!!
I have always admired the "only buy the Deluge if it currently does what you want" ethos. That's emotionally and ethically honest; it's not selling the D to be any more or less than it is. Of course, it doesn't hurt that they are doing more active development on it than any other synth/gear that I've got.
I have learned a lot from the forum. At the same time, I've always wondered what was going on in the FB side, and regretted that I couldn't do Beta b/c of the FB requirement. I'll be taking a photo with my D and sending it in shortly. Hooray!
While I've sometimes picked up cool tricks from the "feature request" zone, it's low signal/noise ratio relative to the tips/tricks/samples that I've gotten from other parts of the forum, and I won't miss it. If it helps the Deluge team focus on getting their stuff done, then I'm all for it. I doubt that they'll all of a sudden stop listening to their user base.
If the change helps us users re-focus our energy on doing the most with what we've got, then it's a win for us too.
This morning, I taught my son what chords are using the Deluge. It was so easy to just say "pick three notes that aren't all next to each other" and have him repeat that experiment, listening to how they sound together and apart as they rolled around the sequence. "Try leaving one gap, try leaving two." I have music theory up the wazoo, but distilling this down to exactly what a 6 yr old needed was just perfect. And we could do it on the sofa, in real time.
Hey guys, a bit late to this thread, but just wanted to say (as someone who is not on Facebook either): I really appreciate this move! Thanks for the effort looking forward to joining betas here.
Comments
OK, I get ya, though yeah, it feels odd to make a statement about what isn't possible through hardware, haha, its an odd precedent, not sure one I've ever seen before.. We get asked a lot to split the headphone/stereo outs, route the audio through the gates, make the pads velocity sensitive, switch in a different screen, etc...all of which we explain isn't possible.
Maybe I might just put a few of those things in our FAQ....seems like the right place to do so? I think perhaps rather than issuing a formal thing about it.
I'll take a look through the requests for anything else in that vein and think about other stuff people have asked over the years that isn't possibly given the hardware configuration and throw that in our FAQ. Cheers for the idea.
Discussions merged
Great news! I closed my fb account last year and the Deluge pages were those I missed the most (especially regarding beta testing!). Thanks a lot for this move and long live the forum!
WOW, sweet forum upgrade guys
🅽🅾🆅🅸🅲🅴 🅳🅴🅻🆄🅶🅸🅾🅽🅸🆂🆃?
Just for reference, there have been 1300 feature requests made on the forums. Haha, we don't need anymore for a while.
🅽🅾🆅🅸🅲🅴 🅳🅴🅻🆄🅶🅸🅾🅽🅸🆂🆃?
This. Absolutely this!
Also, I pretty much agree with everything you've said in this topic. Will have a proper read and comment but just want to pick up on your attempt to distinguish between a 'bug fix' and what in the past I've called 'feature fix'. I think this is the critical point for me. I have TONS of ideas of what could be added to the Deluge to, IMHO, make it better. But I'm not so vocal about a lot of them because it's important to balance what your personal requirements are against all other users (and the development team). However that's not what you (and I) are talking about and I think there's a little disengenuity from Ian here trying to lump 'bug fixes' and 'existing feature fixes' and 'suggestions' in the same pot.
Let me use a car analogy. Bear with me 😆
Say you bought a new car:
If it sets itself on fire when you start it: bug fix.
If it has a radio but it will only tune to Russian stations and only plays at 10% volume: feature fix.
If it has a 1.0L engine and you want a 3.0L engine: feature request.
If it goes in the garage for new tyres and comes out with a sun roof and the old tyres still on: you sent it to Synthstrom Garage (joking!)
Some of us do though Ian so that kind of statement doesn't come across well. Sorry!
I'm not sure there's a single Deluge user who doesn't want to enjoy the Deluge and creating with it.
Ah. Maybe that's the problem! 🤫
As a fella once said "If you build it, they will come".
Synthstrom's ethos to continued development of the Deluge is fucking brilliant, 100%. Big manufacturers could learn a thing or two.
Those things you listed. We all want to do those. Some of us are getting tripped up while trying to do those things by things that need addressing. Can you not see that Ian?
If you have a broken window in your house, you can still live in it, sure. After a while you get used to it but each time the wind blows in a certain direction it gets real cold so you have to wear a jacket and the wind keeps blowing out your scented candles. You can ignore the window mostly but it doesn't stop being an issue. You'd fix it yourself but the landlord won't let you. You've asked him to fix it and he hasn't replied though he has painted your front door yellow.
(I hope you take that in good nature, as intended Ian)
I now realise the trap I have fallen in. Haha, we want to stop talking about features, but now we're having to talk about why we've stopping talking about features, haha, which is more or less just as energy draining.
I hope people can just accept this is the way it has to be, for our sanity, for our enjoyment of the project, for us to continue to remain passionate. We're making a decision which will strengthen the longevity of this project.
Imagine you released your passion project and then for the next four years had people telling you all the things that could be better with it. Haha, perhaps after being told 1300 times you could do better (that's just in this ONE place - not to mention over email, on social media, on FB, on dozens of other forums), you might want a little break? That everybody is right about this thing that you made, except you?
Sometimes you just need to block out the noise, take a deep breath, remember why you were here in the first place and put your head down. We hope that people can just respect our wishes for just a year or so of letting us focus on things and talk about literally anything else, haha, except what bugs them about this thing we make.
There will always be things that people disagree with Rohan's decisions on - trying to speculate on what he is doing. I believe he has been proven right over and over again. The Deluge remains a killer tool and lifechanging for so many - it is him sticking to doing things at his pace and in the right order that makes this device different to so much else and so important to so many - in many cases what people see are its foibles are actually its strengths. We just hope that people will trust in Rohan's vision and they'll let him steer the ship and they can either hoon off in some lifeboats, or enjoy the rocky trip and hope there are enough vomit bags
Btw, If it wasn't clear, haha, I'm going to be removing posts requesting features, including in this thread:) will start with the iron fist of request deletion tomorrow
If we could chat about this face-to-face over a pint....we'd be drunk and they'd be closing the bar
I do understand where you're coming from but it doesn't mean I agree. You know how I feel, I know how you feel and, despite evidence, I have better ways to spend my time than raking the virtual coals.
Haha, I've had many of these chats with people in bars. When I'm out touring with the Deluge (ahh, the good ol' days), it was always interesting to see how long people could hold off before being "I just need this ONE thing, and THEN my Deluge will be perfect", haha. I would sub-consciously time how long it would take...
haha, you have no idea the love I felt for people who would instead just talk to me about other shit, or maybe tell me the things about the Deluge that do work for them.
Its the small things
Great to see the forums getting more focus---another reason to wean myself off FB!
Looking forward to discussions here.
Obviously it's your forum and I can't make you do anything, but please do not delete any of my posts. What I said is important to me, and any actual features mentioned in this thread were solely as examples. I'm not planning to continue mentioning any of them elsewhere on the forums while this policy remains in effect, but for the points I was trying to make, there was no reasonable way to make them without mentioning anything specific that trips people up.
If after reading that you're not willing to leave what I wrote as is, please delete the minimal amount of text that you're willing to and add a note to the effect that you did that.
I can see you have the patience of a saint in this situation. I love my Deluge, it's miles more capable than anything else on the market and I'm looking forward to seeing what comes next.
I do think even a vague project roadmap of what is being worked on for the next year could be useful just for general interest. But I can totally understand how feature requests spiral.
If it means anything, it seems that you've already given so much since the project started, it's almost definitely a compliment that people are so vocal to you. Although again, en masse I can understand how it wouldn't feel like that.
Either way, I'm new to my Deluge and even if it never got another feature added, it's incredible and I'm having fun just making music again after a long time away.
Please just edit your posts and remove any mention of any features. Even examples. Anything like that.
This thread could become something people use as a reference and it's only fair that it sets an example. So yeah. You can edit your posts to remove anything like that.
I edited my first post by deleting some of the content, replacing it with an explanation.
I do not think anything else I wrote in this thread can plausibly be interpreted as a feature request. I don't think you actually meant "any mention of any features" -- that would mean I can't mention, e.g., wavetable synthesis, even though it's already shown in a published teaser video. Being even more hyper-literal than that, I wouldn't even be able to mention features that already exist on the Deluge as it is right now, which is clearly nonsensical.
It's pointless (and actually probably even more frustrating for you) for us to have a meta-meta-argument over what is or isn't banned in the forums. If I'm not allowed to say (e.g.) that I'd love to see a release that focuses on making what is already there more usable, rather than adding more stuff, there is no way for me to make that point without making it. So it's up to you, but my request (regarding what is still there of my first post, and regarding the remaining posts) remains the same. Maybe I'm wrong anyway, @neilbaldwin made the same points I did without mentioning any Deluge features at all... the only problem is it's not obvious from reading his posts why any of that is applicable to the Deluge.
Only requesting stuff not currently implemented is what we are restricting from these forums, haha, sorry if my flippancy didn't make that clear, it feels that it's clearly understood, even if I don't clarify every time....and cheers
think this is a big and needed move. this forum has been a void of activity and usually, creativity. even the way people are commenting on this thread.... it’s so entitled and bizarre.
just wanted to say, every time i plug in my deluge, i get something cool out of it. i played a show with the deluge, and it was fun, flexible and beyond capable. would be amazing if there was a place to geek out about that.
thanks dudes.
this forum has been a void of activity and usually, creativity. even the way people are commenting on this thread.... it’s so entitled and bizarre.
Would you like to expand on that? Seems like a sweepeing statement.
@neilbaldwin
nope. just that.
Making requests for new features has understandably become somewhat of an "expectation"-- I dig it. We've been able to for four years now? I also get that the Synthstrom team has a plan and that our suggestions won't contribute positively to that plan (right now).
I'm perfectly fine with NOT begging for the new bell or whistle, personally. I got my arranger and alphanumerics. Those were really the things I personally felt I needed to be as productive as possible--- but even before that, there wasn't a time since I bought the machine that I WOULD NOT use it because it didn't have a particular feature. I don't think anybody really does that. We buy the machine it is today and we do with it what we can.
I for one am happy to have the last "groovebox" I'll ever need.
And as far as having to bump on over to the Synthstrom site-- I need to pry myself away facebook anyway. Those fools gave me THREE DAYS for saying "really, really dumb"!!
Hey Synthstrom team, I totally trust you that's enough
I have always admired the "only buy the Deluge if it currently does what you want" ethos. That's emotionally and ethically honest; it's not selling the D to be any more or less than it is. Of course, it doesn't hurt that they are doing more active development on it than any other synth/gear that I've got.
I have learned a lot from the forum. At the same time, I've always wondered what was going on in the FB side, and regretted that I couldn't do Beta b/c of the FB requirement. I'll be taking a photo with my D and sending it in shortly. Hooray!
While I've sometimes picked up cool tricks from the "feature request" zone, it's low signal/noise ratio relative to the tips/tricks/samples that I've gotten from other parts of the forum, and I won't miss it. If it helps the Deluge team focus on getting their stuff done, then I'm all for it. I doubt that they'll all of a sudden stop listening to their user base.
If the change helps us users re-focus our energy on doing the most with what we've got, then it's a win for us too.
This morning, I taught my son what chords are using the Deluge. It was so easy to just say "pick three notes that aren't all next to each other" and have him repeat that experiment, listening to how they sound together and apart as they rolled around the sequence. "Try leaving one gap, try leaving two." I have music theory up the wazoo, but distilling this down to exactly what a 6 yr old needed was just perfect. And we could do it on the sofa, in real time.
Hey guys, a bit late to this thread, but just wanted to say (as someone who is not on Facebook either): I really appreciate this move! Thanks for the effort
looking forward to joining betas here.
Loving the renewed energy in the forums!
Will do. Congrats as always on making a great device as an independent company! (And the most updates of anyone, commendable.)
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Great news, I haven't had a FB account in years and I don't want one.