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MIDI loop

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AkenAken MontrealPosts: 27

Hello!
I just bought the Deluge and I'm amazed by it. I want to make it the main gear of my setup so I'm trying things and I am worried about something.
I want to connect an AKAI MPX16 to the deluge. When I receive MIDI from it I can use the pads to trigger sample sounds, but I would like the track I'm recording, when the deluge is on PLAY, to send back the MIDI to the MPX16 so the latter is my controller and the playing sampler while the Deluge is just the sequencer.
I'm afraid that this create a MIDI loop and freeze/kill my Deluge.
Anyone knows if this would work?

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    AkenAken MontrealPosts: 27

    Thank you for your answer! I'll do some tests tomorrow ^^

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    SamSam WellingtonModerator, Staff Posts: 160

    Hi @Aken, you should be fine. As @alien_brain mentioned, just enable midi 'thru' in the settings menu. Go to "Settings" > "MIDI" > "THRU" to select "on" or "off" :)

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    SamSam WellingtonModerator, Staff Posts: 160

    @alien_brain haha are you referring to the direction of the brackets/arrows? ( >< )

    For what it's worth, I've always thought about them as arrows (i.e. "settings" THEN "MIDI" THEN "THRU"), but maybe I've been doing this the wrong way around! :lol: I can understand how it might make sense to have them the other way when we're talking about levels

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    SamSam WellingtonModerator, Staff Posts: 160

    Yeah, @alien_brain's correct! You want any MIDI thru feature on the akai to be turned off, with the Deluge's MIDI thru turned on, which will avoid a loop.

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    AkenAken MontrealPosts: 27

    Hello!
    So here is an update: I went nowhere haha.

    1) There is no midi thru option on the AKAI MPX16, but I think there is no midi thru anyway, since the midi is very basically implemented.

    2) The main problem is that there is no such thing on the Deluge either. Lets say the midi comes in on a kit track via learn assignations, then I don't know how to properly send out that resulting midi. I turned on MIDI thru but the MPX16 sends on 10 and receives on 1. I tried something else by creating a MIDI track that i send to midi chan 1, but I don't know how I could "link" the instrument and midi tracks on the Deluge.

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    minigoatminigoat cincinnati ohio usaPosts: 296

    Learn your mpx16 pads onto a deluge midi track set to anything but ch1...then copy the notes onto a deluge midi track set to send on 10?

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    minigoatminigoat cincinnati ohio usaPosts: 296

    Or try learing the pads onto midi ch1. The deluge will jus learn whatever it is sent

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    minigoatminigoat cincinnati ohio usaPosts: 296

    If your pads send on 10, you should be able to learn onto a midi track set to 1, which will send out to your pads that receive on 1.
    Maybe im missing something?

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    SamSam WellingtonModerator, Staff Posts: 160
    edited April 2018

    @Aken Ah, I think misunderstood the question (as well as the response) previously, sorry. MIDI thru might not be what you want after all. If I'm reading correctly this time, you want the MPX16 to be the sampler and to be able to play the pads on it. The Deluge would work as a sequencer, as well as recording pad presses when you want it to? If this is the case, then you want to learn the MPX16 pads to the audition pads of a Deluge MIDI track that's sending out on channel 1, back to the MPX16. This way, the MPX16 will send to the Deluge, which can record it and then send it back to the MPX16 on it's receiving channel (channel 1). It won't create a loop because the MPX16 isn't sending the same MIDI information back to the Deluge again (provided that it doesn't have a MIDI thru feature that's turned on).

    Sorry for the confusion. Is this what you're looking for?

    Post edited by Sam on
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    AkenAken MontrealPosts: 27
    edited April 2018

    Hello again :)
    Sorry for the late reply I was a bit busy lately.
    So I did like you said, i.e. learning pas on a MIDI track of Deluge (I don't know why I didn't think about it earlier) and it works! BUT.

    Fortunately, it doesn't loop because there is no MIDI thru on the AKAI, so when I hit a pad on the AKAI, it goes in the deluge via the ch. 10 and the deluge send back the data in the AKAI via the ch. 1 and it ends there. The issue tho, is that i hear every sound 2 times because it is triggered 1 time with my finger and a second time when the signal comes back from the deluge.
    The only workaround I found was to change the MIDI send channel on the deluge when I'm playing on the AKAI, but it means that I can't "overdub", meaning I have to record 1 shot, quickly change back the MIDI ch. back to 1 when I'm done, and eventually add things on the deluge, which is not very convenient haha

    If you have ideas I take but I' under the impression that I'll have to finally use samples from the Deluge ^^

    I actually liked the AKAI onboard sampler because I can change the sample start and end, which are very important paramaters for me and I didn't find this on the Deluge yet, or maybe they exist but are not easily accessible?

    oh and, now I'm here: Is there a way to have a pad playing directly at 127 (max velocity) when we activate it on the deluge? they are 64 by default and the AKAI is 127 by default and I think I like it more at 127 + the discrepency between the two makes it a bit impractical :pensive:

    Post edited by Aken on
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    SamSam WellingtonModerator, Staff Posts: 160
    edited April 2018

    Hi @Aken! Interesting that you're getting this problem. I can't think of a solution/workaround off the top of my head, aside from the one you're currently using, but if I think of anything I'll post it here. Apart from that, @alien_brain's got a good point there - is there any way on the Akai to stop it from playing samples when the pads are pressed and just output MIDI? (With samples being triggered only by incoming MIDI)

    As far as start/end point editing, the Deluge can actually do that. Hold down the audition pad for the sample you want to edit, and then press the shortcut for start/end up in the top-left corner of the edit pads. If you got the shortcuts printed, they should say "start" and "end" underneath them, with "Zone" to the left of the "end" pad. If you didn't get the shortcuts printed, the "start" pad is the top-left corner edit pad, while the "end" pad is the one directly below it. You can also access these features through the sound editor menu.

    The default velocity question is a bit trickier. Unfortunately there's no way to change the default velocity at the moment, although it's quite a common request. There should be a suggestion already on the software suggestions page, if you would like to upvote it.

    Hope that helps :smile:

    Post edited by Sam on
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    AkenAken MontrealPosts: 27

    is there any way on the Akai to stop it from playing samples when the pads are pressed and just output MIDI? (With samples being triggered only by incoming MIDI)

    Unfortunately not, the MPX16 is a very basic piece of gear when it comes to MIDI implementation (which is a shame for it's price imo).

    For the start and end points, thank you!, the controls are a bit touchy with the shift to select->edit the sound without triggering it, but the process is overall decent and I can use the pads of my AKAI so I'm good!

    The Deluge is amazing and so is your support :)

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    AkenAken MontrealPosts: 27
    edited April 2018

    The sampler is actually 1000 times better on the Deluge since it is coupled with the sequencer... I'm playing with effects on isolated steps, it is just way too awesome.

    Post edited by Aken on
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    AkenAken MontrealPosts: 27

    Btw, I don't know if it is a feature, a bug or a limitation, but when I press the RECORD button and that I want to play the drums via the AKAI pads and a synth on the deluge at the same time, it doesnt work :P
    I can record the drums while being on the synth track, but I can't record both the drums and the synth: if i start playing the synth it will not take into account in the recording any of what im playing on the pads and if i start playing on the pads and then introduce the synth (all while recording), the deluge will cease to record the midi coming from the pads as soon as i start playing the synth.

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    SamSam WellingtonModerator, Staff Posts: 160

    Hi @Aken! Sorry this has taken me a while to get back to. Glad you're enjoying the Deluge sampler! The problem you're referring to in your last post does seem to be a bug, sorry - Rohan's going to investigate and I'll get back to you if he finds anything :)

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    AkenAken MontrealPosts: 27

    Hey @Sam! I think you should really consider a "record arm" function if possible. With the AKAI pads I wished I could play it at the same time as I'm playing the grid, because I choose when I use the AKAI, but yesterday I connected an Arturia Beatstep pro to replace the AKAI and used its sequencer feature to control Deluge's kits and my problem was the opposite: each time I used the grid to record a synth Deluge would eventually record on kit tracks the notes played by the Beatstep sequencer in the meantime hehe. So I decided to not use the Beatstep anymore.
    With a record arm switch put ON by default the Deluge would record any incoming MIDI signal except for the tracks manually switched off (to use external sequencers properly).

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    dctuckerdctucker San Diego, CA, USAPosts: 1

    Just wanted to chime in and bump this thread since I'm having a related issue.

    I'm running firmware 2.0. I can describe in detail what is happening. I have a bunch of gear connected via USB; Deluge, JUNO-DS, Moog Little Phatty, Novation Circuit; and Ableton on my Mac direct to the Deluge via MIDI 5-pin DIN.

    Let's start with what happens when it's just the Deluge and the Circuit connected with either DIN or USB:
    The Circuit responds on Channels 1,2,10. I want to get a groove going on the circuit and later record the data to a MIDI track on the Deluge. I make a new MIDI track for channel 1 and learn the output from the Circuit on channel 1 to that track. What then happens is a sort of horrible feedback loop where Circuit sends data on channel 1, which prompts the Deluge to send the same data back out on channel 1, which triggers the same note again on the Circuit. The Deluge would ideally handle this case a bit more intelligently and not parrot back the data when the channel out matches the learned input channel. This happens with any of the instruments mentioned above.

    With Ableton I have a problem that might be better conveyed in a separate thread. To be brief, I've had the Deluge freeze randomly four times today with a stuck buzzing sound requiring me to power cycle the Deluge. It's a real bummer when that happens because any edits I made are lost.

    I'm happy to go into greater detail... I'm a software engineer who did a bit of work for Moog several years back.

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    omgfoadomgfoad StockholmPosts: 8

    Reviving this old thread. Any solutions on the horizon for this?

    @dctucker said:
    Let's start with what happens when it's just the Deluge and the Circuit connected with either DIN or USB:
    The Circuit responds on Channels 1,2,10. I want to get a groove going on the circuit and later record the data to a MIDI track on the Deluge. I make a new MIDI track for channel 1 and learn the output from the Circuit on channel 1 to that track. What then happens is a sort of horrible feedback loop where Circuit sends data on channel 1, which prompts the Deluge to send the same data back out on channel 1, which triggers the same note again on the Circuit. The Deluge would ideally handle this case a bit more intelligently and not parrot back the data when the channel out matches the learned input channel. This happens with any of the instruments mentioned above.

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    EddyEddy ColognePosts: 260

    But you have switched "MIDI THRU" to OFF In the Deluge Main Settings?

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    omgfoadomgfoad StockholmPosts: 8

    @Eddy said:
    But you have switched "MIDI THRU" to OFF In the Deluge Main Settings?

    Tried that but no difference.. Need to do some more testing, but it could just be some of my gear that has bad midi implementation.

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    RandomAztecRandomAztec IrelandPosts: 103
    edited July 2019

    What about the track your recording in the deluge isn't set to channel 1 ? Let's say your circuit is outputting data on channel 1, set the deluge to midi track 2 but use learn to take in notes from the circuit.

    I haven't tried this yet but seems like it might work

    Post edited by RandomAztec on
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