β€Ί
Please familiarise yourself with the forum, including policy on feature requests, rules & guidelines

Midi track -> External Synth -> Record as sample -> Create synth with sample

0

Dear Forum,

I'm a newbie with the Deluge!

I have created a midi track which triggers an external synth creating a cool HH sound :smile:

Now, I'd like to record that sound into the Deluge and create a synth using that sample.

Is that possible?

So far, I have succeeded in:

Routing the output of the synth to the line in of the Deluge
Creating a new kit, and arming that kit for recording using the line in (Stereo) and pressing the record button (getting ready for recording)
Pressing play, starting the playback of the midi track on the Deluge, the synth receiving the midi and producing the sound and the Deluge recording a 1 bar audio clip.
Successfully playing back the audio clip that sounds close to what the synth is producing (some hum and whatever is added to the sound and it's also clipping at a lower volume).

However, the sound needs to be offset to the left (played x milliseconds before the beat) in order to fit to the rest of the track.
Also, I'd like to be able to trigger the sound as a one-shot sample to my liking using the pads.

Any suggestions?

All the best,
Jon

Comments

  • 0

    Sorry for not posting this in the question category :-/

  • 0
    volstehvolsteh CroatiaPosts: 418
    edited May 2021

    So you are using it in KIT mode. you can edit/crop the sample in waveform view. Changing the sample mode (once, cut, loop, stretch..) will allow you to play it like a one-shot or to stretch it across beats.

    If you want to play it chromatically, load the sample in an oscillator in SYNTH mode.

    Post edited by volsteh on

    πŸ…½πŸ…ΎπŸ†…πŸ…ΈπŸ…²πŸ…΄ πŸ…³πŸ…΄πŸ…»πŸ†„πŸ…ΆπŸ…ΈπŸ…ΎπŸ…½πŸ…ΈπŸ†‚πŸ†ƒ?

  • 0
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 1,017

    @Howdy_Stranger said:
    Dear Forum,

    I'm a newbie with the Deluge!

    I have created a midi track which triggers an external synth creating a cool HH sound :smile:

    Now, I'd like to record that sound into the Deluge and create a synth using that sample.

    Is that possible?

    So far, I have succeeded in:

    Routing the output of the synth to the line in of the Deluge
    Creating a new kit, and arming that kit for recording using the line in (Stereo) and pressing the record button (getting ready for recording)
    Pressing play, starting the playback of the midi track on the Deluge, the synth receiving the midi and producing the sound and the Deluge recording a 1 bar audio clip.
    Successfully playing back the audio clip that sounds close to what the synth is producing (some hum and whatever is added to the sound and it's also clipping at a lower volume).

    However, the sound needs to be offset to the left (played x milliseconds before the beat) in order to fit to the rest of the track.
    Also, I'd like to be able to trigger the sound as a one-shot sample to my liking using the pads.

    Any suggestions?

    All the best,
    Jon

    You say you record with a kit, but it seems you aren't. You're recording with an audio clip, right?
    If you sample with a synth or kit clip or resample instead, it will be normalized (and you can also trigger it as a one-shot sample or as an instrument.) Audio clips are NOT normalized. So before sampling, using synth or kit/ resampling, simply turn down the output volume on the external synth to avoid clipping in the recording, and then it will be normalized afterwards to get a good volume level.

    Easiest process would be: Quantize-resample i.e. simultaneously starting playback and internal resampling.
    Solo the midi clip and the audio clip you use for monitoring (if you didn't use monitoring, set it up with a dot after STEReo to do so). Then, hold Rec and press Play; playback will start, midi will be sent, audio will come into the line-in, and will be internally resampled. Close the recording with the same button combo (hold Rec then press Play) and it will be quantized to stop at the next end of measure.

    Now, you can load this resample into a kit, or synth. Create a new kit and you'll be automatically taken to that last resample you interacted with, in the file browser.
    Same if you hit Aud.pad+Load in a new synth clip.
    After loading it into the kit/ synth, you can use waveform view to trim the start if you need to, trigger it with different playback modes etc.

    ~ Distinguished Delugate α••( β—Ž_β—Ž)α•—

  • 0

    Hey volsteh and Icoustic :smiley:

    Thanks so much for your replies! - I have read them, then read them once more and then once more again :-)

    I realized - like you say Icoustic - that I was recording with an audio clip.

    So, based on your replies I now have the following workflow:

    1)
    I create a midi track with the right channel, Program changes and press the learn/input and audition buttons and press a key on the synth to enable recording from the external synth.

    2)
    I set my preferred clip length and record the notes from the external synth. (I leave the midi clip unmuted of course). Now it's time to record what the synth plays on to the deluge.

    3)
    I create a new track, press the kit button and create a new blank kit. I adjust the clip length to match the midi track. I zoom out the track in order to be able to see both the beginning and end of the clip.

    4)
    I hold down the audition button, and press the record button and the play button at the same time. Recording is in progress. When I'm sure that the recording is at least as long as the clip length, I press the select button and I can now see the progress bar looping again.

    5) I press the first pad to the left on the row onto where I recorded and the clip length is automatically adjusted to have the length of the recording (-1 note because of margins set to on) and it now plays back along with the midi track, doubling up the sound (unwanted). I navigate to song mode and shift-mute the midi track.

    Besides from being very happy that the deluge is working so fine, I have a couple of questions (maybe more coming up later). Hope it's ok to ask! :-)

    a)
    If I don't press record and play exactly at the same time, the recording is offset and not precise to the beat. Is there another way to record that doesn't involve my precision?

    b)
    Sometimes I record long clips with odd lengths and when recording I'm not sure when the clip has run all the way through. Is there a way to see the progress bar when recording with a kit?

    c)
    When is the Program change (PGM, bank, sub) transmitted to the external synth? For me it seems a little random, but I'm sure it's because I don't fully understand it yet. Maybe only when the song is loaded?

    d)
    I cannot find a way to select which input I'd like to use when recording from a kit. Is there a way to select line in or should I always just "hope for the best"?
    d2)
    From the manual I can see the following monitoring options:
    "Sampling options: ON / OFF/ CONDitional : monitor on = headphones in + mic recording. monitoring always on = line in."
    What does "monitoring always on" mean - and how do I select it (no option to select "always on")?

    All the best,
    Jon

  • 0
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 1,017
    edited May 2021

    @Howdy_Stranger
    Let's backtrack. If you could try what i described which is different from what you have described now. Let's go through it again:

    1) Just to be sure - turn down the output volume on the external synth a bit to avoid clipping in the recording, and then the recording will be automatically normalized afterwards to get a good volume level, using the following process of quantized internal resampling.

    2) Your step 1 and 2 that you mentioned

    3) Let's forget about the kit clip for now. Set up an audio clip simply for monitoring (not for recording) as this is how we internally resample the sound of the synth.
    Hold Learn, press the audio clip row, and set the monitoring to STEReo with a dot.

    4) Make sure that when you press play, you hear your synth playing via the monitoring.

    5) Make sure nothing else is playing, i.e. solo just the clips you need (as we are going to internally resample).
    Now, with playback stopped, hold Record and then press Play, and resampling will begin from the start of the sequence, indicated by the blinking Rec light.

    6) Before the end of the measure where you want the recording to end, hold Rec and then press Play again, before it reaches the end of the measure, and it will quantize the stopping of recording exactly to the end of the clip, i.e. no need for you to time it perfectly.

    7) Now, you can make a new kit, and you'll automatically be taken to your new resample file in the file browser, and can load this into the kit, and trigger it etc.

    This should make things work better for you.
    Let me know how you get on with it :)

    Post edited by Icoustik on

    ~ Distinguished Delugate α••( β—Ž_β—Ž)α•—

  • 0
    hexagon5unhexagon5un MunichBeta Tester Posts: 121

    I've been using this workflow a lot with a Novation Peak. It's a beautiful synth, but only mono-timbral.

    Compose MIDI track for it, solo it for playback, start new audio track, record+play to sample from the Peak to an audio track. Clear out MIDI track and go for the next layer. Poor-man's Summit. :)

  • 1
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 1,017
    edited May 2021

    @hexagon5un said:
    I've been using this workflow a lot with a Novation Peak. It's a beautiful synth, but only mono-timbral.

    Compose MIDI track for it, solo it for playback, start new audio track, record+play to sample from the Peak to an audio track. Clear out MIDI track and go for the next layer. Poor-man's Summit. :)

    Let's be clear about the terms please; If you're using hold Record + press Play, you are in fact not recording to an audio clip, you are resampling. While if you however have an empty clip in song view which is unmuted, have Record on (solid red light) and then press Play, you'll be recording into the audio clip.

    Also, technically, tracks are the rows in arranger view, while clips are the rows in song view.
    A track in arranger can contain multiple clips that belongs to it that you see in song view. :) And, a track can be created in arranger that will not be shown in song view.

    Post edited by Icoustik on

    ~ Distinguished Delugate α••( β—Ž_β—Ž)α•—

  • 0
    phillipadsmithphillipadsmith United StatesBeta Tester Posts: 89

    @Icoustik said:
    Let's be clear about the terms please; If you're using hold Record + press Play, you are in fact not recording to an audio clip, you are resampling. While if you however have an empty clip in song view which is unmuted, have Record on (solid red light) and then press Play, you'll be recording into the audio clip.

    I feel like I've rather accidentally done both of these. What are the advantages of each approach, i.e., recording into the audio clip vs. resampling and loading into a kit row? I believe normalization is one difference, what are the other ways these two workflows differ?

  • 0
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 1,017

    @phillipadsmith said:

    @Icoustik said:
    Let's be clear about the terms please; If you're using hold Record + press Play, you are in fact not recording to an audio clip, you are resampling. While if you however have an empty clip in song view which is unmuted, have Record on (solid red light) and then press Play, you'll be recording into the audio clip.

    I feel like I've rather accidentally done both of these. What are the advantages of each approach, i.e., recording into the audio clip vs. resampling and loading into a kit row? I believe normalization is one difference, what are the other ways these two workflows differ?

    There are several differences, normalizing being an important one. Other ones:

    • Audio clips can be live-looped, resamples cannot.
    • Resamples can be accessed instantly in the browser after recording, while audio clips can only be accessed after saving the song so that they are moved from the TEMP folder into the CLIPS folder. Relevant to many things, like e.g. slicing after sampling.
    • Audio clips do not have all the modulation/ automation possibilities that synth/kit clips do
      (remember samples can be loaded into synth clips too :) )

    ~ Distinguished Delugate α••( β—Ž_β—Ž)α•—

  • 0
    hexagon5unhexagon5un MunichBeta Tester Posts: 121

    You're totally right. I'm pressing record, releasing record, and then pressing play. That's when the clip recording (or countdown) starts.

    I see how what I said could have been confusing.

    (And yeah. "Clip" not "track".)

  • 0
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 1,017

    @hexagon5un said:
    You're totally right. I'm pressing record, releasing record, and then pressing play. That's when the clip recording (or countdown) starts.

    I see how what I said could have been confusing.

    (And yeah. "Clip" not "track".)

    All good, more clarity :smiley: We're dealing with an increasingly complex device haha!
    Some things are easy to mix up

    ~ Distinguished Delugate α••( β—Ž_β—Ž)α•—

  • 1
    phillipadsmithphillipadsmith United StatesBeta Tester Posts: 89

    @Icoustik said:
    There are several differences, normalizing being an important one. Other ones:

    • Audio clips can be live-looped, resamples cannot.
    • Resamples can be accessed instantly in the browser after recording, while audio clips can only be accessed after saving the song so that they are moved from the TEMP folder into the CLIPS folder. Relevant to many things, like e.g. slicing after sampling.
    • Audio clips do not have all the modulation/ automation possibilities that synth/kit clips do
      (remember samples can be loaded into synth clips too :) )

    This is super-helpful, thank you!

  • 0
    phillipadsmithphillipadsmith United StatesBeta Tester Posts: 89

    @Icoustik Following up on the above thread, the two things I'm still trying to get my head around are:

    1) Using the audio clip to live loop, it seems that the length is whatever I record. If I hit record, then hit play, then play in a bassline from an external synth, and hit record again -- it will simply loop at whatever bar length I recorded, correct?

    2) From there, I believe the loop length is set to the above for subsequent audio clip recordings?

    3) Switching to resampling: if I have a two-bar MIDI clip that is triggering an external synth and I hold record + play , and record + play again before the end of the second bar, it should create a perfect two-bar loop -- correct? (I'm finding this process a bit fiddly, and often end up with a re-sample that is multiple bars of the two-bar loop for some reason.)

    Thanks for your insights here, as always!

  • 1
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 1,017

    @phillipadsmith said:
    @Icoustik Following up on the above thread, the two things I'm still trying to get my head around are:

    1) Using the audio clip to live loop, it seems that the length is whatever I record. If I hit record, then hit play, then play in a bassline from an external synth, and hit record again -- it will simply loop at whatever bar length I recorded, correct?

    2) From there, I believe the loop length is set to the above for subsequent audio clip recordings?

    3) Switching to resampling: if I have a two-bar MIDI clip that is triggering an external synth and I hold record + play , and record + play again before the end of the second bar, it should create a perfect two-bar loop -- correct? (I'm finding this process a bit fiddly, and often end up with a re-sample that is multiple bars of the two-bar loop for some reason.)

    Thanks for your insights here, as always!

    1) If you record into an empty audio clip from start (like you said) without any other clips unmuted/ going on, then your loop will be as long as you make it, and once closed, will set the tempo of the song.
    While if you record into an empty audio clip from ITS start (i.e., with record on, quantize-unmute it during playback, or play from start with the clip unmuted) while other clips are also unmuted/ going on, its gonna sync with the current sequence and auto-extend like instrument clips will as well, and lock to the next measure when you close the loop.

    2) Recording length is related to zoom level. If you record a 4 bar loop, and are at 4th zoom level (4 bars), then you'llbe unable to make an overdub of said clip that's shorter than 4 bars. But if you change zoom level to e.g. 16th (1 bar) you can now record a 1 bar overdub to the first 4 bar loop. Hope that makes sense.

    Also, LAYEr loops (continuous layering overdubs) recording will lock to the length of the preceding clip. This recording mode is done either with the LAYEr loop midi command, or by holding Rec and pressing the section/ aud.pad underneath the clip to layer-overdub.

    So if you make an empty audio clip, set its length with shift+<>, and then use the layer-overdub command, the recording(s) will always lock to the set length.
    This can also be used to record at set length, without multiple layers:
    after starting the layer-recording, press the red bar in the grid (or LAYEr midi command again) to cancel subsequent layers after the currently recording one.

    3) Just make sure that you hold Rec and then press Play to trigger the command correctly, and like you said press it again in good time before the end of the next measure, and it will quantize, perfectly indeed :)

    ~ Distinguished Delugate α••( β—Ž_β—Ž)α•—

  • 0
    phillipadsmithphillipadsmith United StatesBeta Tester Posts: 89

    @Icoustik said:
    1) If you record into an empty audio clip from start (like you said) without any other clips unmuted/ going on, then your loop will be as long as you make it, and once closed, will set the tempo of the song.

    I'm going to have to give this a try again to get my head around it. Is the Deluge is looking for transients within that recording and using it to set the tempo?

    While if you record into an empty audio clip from ITS start (i.e., with record on, quantize-unmute it during playback, or play from start with the clip unmuted) while other clips are also unmuted/ going on, its gonna sync with the current sequence and auto-extend like instrument clips will as well, and lock to the next measure when you close the loop.

    And closing the loop in this context is done by pressing the audition pad, or simply hitting record again?

    2) Recording length is related to zoom level. If you record a 4 bar loop, and are at 4th zoom level (4 bars), then you'llbe unable to make an overdub of said clip that's shorter than 4 bars. But if you change zoom level to e.g. 16th (1 bar) you can now record a 1 bar overdub to the first 4 bar loop. Hope that makes sense.

    Ah, yes, I often forget about this! That's super helpful to be reminded of.

    3) Just make sure that you hold Rec and then press Play to trigger the command correctly, and like you said press it again in good time before the end of the next measure, and it will quantize, perfectly indeed :)

    Practice, practice, practice! :)

  • 0
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 1,017
    edited May 2021

    I'm going to have to give this a try again to get my head around it. Is the Deluge is looking for transients within that recording and using it to set the tempo?

    No, the length of the clip defines the tempo :)

    And closing the loop in this context is done by pressing the audition pad, or simply hitting record again?

    The mutepad, not the audition pad! And also the LOOP, REC or LAYEr midi commands!

    Woop! (β˜žβ—‘Ο‰β—‘)☞

    Post edited by Icoustik on

    ~ Distinguished Delugate α••( β—Ž_β—Ž)α•—

  • 0
    phillipadsmithphillipadsmith United StatesBeta Tester Posts: 89

    @Icoustik said:

    I'm going to have to give this a try again to get my head around it. Is the Deluge is looking for transients within that recording and using it to set the tempo?

    No, the length of the clip defines the tempo :)

    Right, right -- I see what you're saying now (and noted that in your Deluge Dozen video the Deluge flashed a BPM as you finished recording that first drum part).

    And closing the loop in this context is done by pressing the audition pad, or simply hitting record again?

    The mutepad, not the audition pad! And also the LOOP, REC or LAYEr midi commands!

    Ah, yes, good reminder to map those to something convenient. I'm reluctant to use a foot switch (two left feet!), but could easily map it to something more handy! Thanks!

  • 0
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 1,017

    @phillipadsmith said:
    noted that in your Deluge Dozen video the Deluge flashed a BPM as you finished recording that first drum part).

    Exactly!

    Ah, yes, good reminder to map those to something convenient. I'm reluctant to use a foot switch (two left feet!), but could easily map it to something more handy! Thanks!

    No prob! Yeah its nice to have single midi buttons to be able to handle the commands instead of button combos.

    ~ Distinguished Delugate α••( β—Ž_β—Ž)α•—

  • 0

    Thanks so much for helping me out Icoustik - it definitely works! :-)

    Also all the additional tips and tricks are very welcome - a 1000 thanks! :-)

  • 0
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 1,017

    @Howdy_Stranger said:
    Thanks so much for helping me out Icoustik - it definitely works! :-)

    Also all the additional tips and tricks are very welcome - a 1000 thanks! :-)

    Awesome! ^_^

    ~ Distinguished Delugate α••( β—Ž_β—Ž)α•—

  • 0
    kilroykilroy CanadaBeta Tester Posts: 25

    Is there any way to multi-sample using this approach. E.g. first resample C3, load Bot-top, then resample C5 and assign it to a specific range.

    I know how to multi-sample when all the notes are in a single folder and then it automatically assigns the ranges, but I haven't found a way to set the range of a single sample. I suppose if your resample folder was empty before you started sampling multiple notes it might work.

  • 1
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 1,017

    @kilroy said:
    Is there any way to multi-sample using this approach. E.g. first resample C3, load Bot-top, then resample C5 and assign it to a specific range.

    I know how to multi-sample when all the notes are in a single folder and then it automatically assigns the ranges, but I haven't found a way to set the range of a single sample. I suppose if your resample folder was empty before you started sampling multiple notes it might work.

    Insert note range: While in the note view (Browse shortcut in an instrument clip, notes/ranges on screen) hold shift and scroll the Select knob so the screen says INSErt.

    Set range of sample: While in the note view, select a note, then move the <>-knob left or right to select top or bottom range, and set it with the select knob, then move <> again so it stops blinking to set it.

    ~ Distinguished Delugate α••( β—Ž_β—Ž)α•—

  • 0
    HeptagenHeptagen Posts: 277

    While we're at it: is there a way to manually pitch a single sample in a multisample instrument? I've had the deluge pitching one sample wrong and all others right, rendering the whole instrument useless.

  • 0
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 1,017

    @Heptagen said:
    While we're at it: is there a way to manually pitch a single sample in a multisample instrument? I've had the deluge pitching one sample wrong and all others right, rendering the whole instrument useless.

    OSC1/2 Transpose shortcut (third column from left, second pad from bottom) is fine-tuning, in cents.
    When you enter the parameter, first you select a note-range (e.g. C2-D2), press select knob and then tune :)

    ~ Distinguished Delugate α••( β—Ž_β—Ž)α•—

  • 1
    HeptagenHeptagen Posts: 277

    @Icoustik said:
    press select knob and then tune

    Aaah thats what was missing! I didn't press select. You did it again, thank you! :smile:

  • 1
    kilroykilroy CanadaBeta Tester Posts: 25

    I can't believe I didn't know that. Thanks @lcoustik.

    If you're just pulling in an octave or so, the resample method above makes it quicker than fiddling with sample robot or something similar and swapping out your SD card.

    For reference in case it's useful to anyone else, here are some quickie sampling ranges:

    • 1 note/octave: sample C2, C3, C4 - ranges are [Bot-F#2, G2-F#3, G3-Top].
    • 2 notes/octave: sample C3, F#3, C4 - ranges are [Bot-D3, D#3-G#3, A3-Top]. 3 below each sampled note, 2 above.
    • 3 notes/octave: sample C, E, G# in any octave - ranges are [Bot-C#, D-F, F#-A, A#-Top]. 2 below each sampled note, 1 above.
    • 4 notes/octave, sample C, D#, F#, A in any octave - ranges are [Bot-C#, D-E, F-G, G#-A#, B-Top]. 1 below, 1 above.
Sign In or Register to comment.