The Deluge sound, why so atmospheric?
Peter
Posts: 4
I don't want to criticize with this post but I do want to discuss something that is on my mind for a while.
I bought the Deluge a few years ago and love it. I am kinda new to music making but I have played around with many software synths on the iPad like Thor, iMS-20, Minimoog Model D, etc. The one thing that always put me off about the Deluge is the sound.
I am not talking about the "Deluge sound" as some people call it, which mostly relates the the stock instruments and maybe underutilized sound design of the very capable sound engines.
I am talking about the sound people make with the Deluge. Which ends up in tutorials and the songs people put online.
This Deluge sound I am talking about is atmospheric, ambient, very whimsical and slow moving.
And frankly, I hate it. It is not that I never listen to such music, but I am over it and every time someone posts a song made with the deluge on the reddit I get excited only to be disappointed later on when it is the same stuff.
Look at boards of deluge. I bought at least 3 packs of it. With them, every time I started my deluge, I got discouraged, sketching something up because the first 10s of instruments are super long-release atmospheric sounds I find nice and complex but which I am not interested in making music with. I had to remove them.
Now, I don't say that kind of music is bad just because I don't like it, I just wonder why is the Deluge so tied to this sound? Sure there are probably counter examples, but in my experience as someone who watches a lot of Deluge videos on Youtube, the majority is this atmospheric sound. And compared to devices like the Tracker M8 the songs produced with that are much more aggressive, punchy, fast, exciting. That is reflected by their demo song, the instruments, the songs people make and put online.
Where are the gritty sounds? Funky mashup samples? The Boys Noize, the Gesaffelstein, Soulwax, Justice (first album lol), etc
I cannot really put my finger on it. I listen to a lot of electronic music but I don't like what people produce with the Deluge most of the time.
How come that is?
Comments
Maybe the current demographic for Deluge owners is old fogies lol... I've found on YT that some early popular users like Andrew Huang, Cuckoo, Oora or Surco simply stopped doing videos on the Deluge. Maybe they just want paying to do more? Maybe the mediocre default presets or the 'Deluge sound' or the learning curve put them off? Maybe the learning curve is just too steep for most before they click with it, so they sell it on too soon a la Octatrack? It was nearly that last case for me! My Deluge broke and it was in a cupboard for 2 years before I got it repaired, but am now really enjoying the Community firmware, although it's still overwhelming with all of its potential functionality, I've not even touched the looper (pedal incompatible and no inspiring vids) and it's been a while since it was repaired. But I'm sure with separate compressors now on each track (and each drum sound!) we'll see an increase in less muddy washed-out ambience (sorry) online. I also find that the simple EQ is a pain for separating sounds in the mix, although the new Community state-variable filters are helping.
Also, I think many folk have turned into 'consumers' rather than customers per se, and the pathological need for 'new and improved' gear drives the market treadmills. This might make the Deluge appear more 'old and inferior' to potential customers as time goes on, especially with so much cheap gear around these days. So much for sustainability heh.
I do also suspect that because of its relatively high price for a groovebox, it's more likely to be used as a 'hobby' toy by relatively affluent folk who just want to enjoy the creative process itself when they're not busy earning than becoming a serious musical instrument by someone who's more talented/dedicated but can't afford it or thinks it's another expensive joke toy box (maybe due to all the pedestrian videos lol). I reckon lots of folk just sell the Deluge on before really getting intimate with it, hence why the bland default presets are effectively hiding its true potential (again this is all my opinion). I wish Synthstrom would hold a preset competition for future inclusion, but at the rate the Community firmware is growing it might be a bit of a problem to get 'better sounds' out of the slower official releases. It would still be better if we selected 'NEW' and didn't have that bland default synth sound 00 every time (I just thought, maybe it can be overwritten. Must try that).
BTW I have the Boards of Deluge pack #1 but have not got any more as want to sculpt sounds myself but can reverse engineer some of the techniques by looking at the preset structures. I've never been a preset guy and nowadays start with a blank slate and use my limited knowledge of synthesis to evolve the sounds. I got some punchy Orbital sounds spot on (Style) and some John Carpenter full cover tracks (always a good sound design challenge) but I'm not currently inclined to be as creative as during the winter months here in Scotland.
I've spent some time thinking about this whole subject as it seems that it's a bit of a hot potato around here and nobody has said anything in reply to you yet! Hope this is helpful in some way and that you develop your own sound on this mini marvel, because after all if you can't find the music/tutorials you want, just explore & make it yourself.
I've had a brief rummage online and for the record here are some great non-fluffy Deluge vids, although I don't know if anyone used post-processing to enhance the audio on any of these performances:
I was surprised at what this next guy got out of the Deluge, although his stage presence needs work heh, and I think he explains that he mainly sampled his studio gear and played it all from the Deluge:
Red Means Recording on YouTube has done some great stuff with the Deluge too, but like with lots of YouTubers, he does integrate it with other gear regularly, and I find it difficult to pick out the Deluge's sounds, especially when it's sequencing other gear as well.
I'll be interested to hear other folks' views and opinons too. Cheers
For what it's worth, when I do tutorials on new features I usually intentionally work with slower, more ambient sounds, as harsher/faster stuff gets grating in a 30-minute tutorial and is harder to talk over. Doesn't mean I don't like/make that type of music---softer, more subtle stuff just works well in this context (specifically when it's not about sound design, but a new shortcut or firmware update)
@pitchblender Thank you for your long and detailed response! I really appreciate that. Apologies for taking my time to respond, I got a little discouraged after there was not much movement here. I guess my honest curiosity and frustrations about this issue may come off a bit negative. Which I don't want to, be because I love this thing.
Your points make sense, I have not thought about some of these topics like that (type of audience, etc.). Thank you for your videos, these are some interesting sounds.
I was also thinking a bit about the generative music aspect of the deluge. I feel like that gets shown off a lot as a huge feature and then leads to people creating these "evolving soundspheres". Which just ends up being this "mushy" sound that I don't tend to like. But that is just me! I also like Red means recording.
What recently brought me back to the Deluge was this video below. It is not necessary hard-hitting electro but it is really melodic, interesting and super fun. To me it stands out and it is an amazing inspiration to go back and dip my toes in again:
@Bay_Mud That is an interesting point as well. Maybe it is a bias that is inherent to these types of tutorial videos.
I take away from this that this may be an audience thing. I pointed out before that I really like a lot of the demos that people make with the M8 over the Deluge. I would not buy one and I don't think this is inherent to the device. It may just be that people who are drawn to the Deluge may be a bit older and seasoned (or have given up on it). And the M8 people may be younger (and there seems to be more). Who knows. I hope I did not offend anyone. I just wanted to explore this a bit.
New user here! Really happy with this instrument! But I can relate to what is mentioned above. For me I think it has to do with the 'presets'. The Deluge can make a huge amount of different sounds, but out of the box it is mainly the subtractive synth/FM. And to build-up a library of your own sounds is not so easy -or attractive- for me, and I guess that counts for more people.
I have a Nord Stage 2 as well. It shares the same feel as the Deluge (not only the wooden side panels :-). All controls are directly under knobs and buttons. No menu diving. No 'programming'. The Nord website has a great collection of sounds/samples. Free for download, nicely ordered. It takes some work to put the sounds in and replacing the banks etc. That also is a reason that I don't often replace the sounds/samples on it. Guess I'm plain lazy....
What would be a great addition to me is that the Deluge would come with a very big library of sounds. I would love to have the DX7 directly available under Synth. Maybe have a small directory structure there to select: Subtractive/FM/Wavetable/DX7/Multisample/Vocals and what's more to come. And then pack every directory with whatever good patch we have as a collective. Maybe the same for drums?
So that we you take the Deluge, you can explore the sounds and let that be an inspiration by itself. And as the library increases you can simply update it. The Deluge has no limits!!
Would definitely love to help on this. There is a huge open source effort to make this instrument better and better. Maybe we can do the same for the sound library?
@Streef there is currently a preset competition that will lead to a new free preset pack for the deluge
@Streef there is currently a preset competition that will lead to a new free preset pack for the deluge
Submission Form
That's really good news! Also, I learned that the synth can be using directories.... Should have looked better at 1.2 first before writing :-)
One thing that I din't expect: the sustain pedal doesn't work???