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Change a song's key (?)

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Hello dear Delugers!
So I've created a track on the Deluge recently, and I would like to change the key of the track. Currently it's in F min, but I'd like to transpose the whole thing to G maj, and was wondering how one would achive that with the Deluge.

When you change the root note of the track, the Deluge recognises that the notes recorded into the sequencer are outside the new key, but does nothing about moving the notes around (shows the 'Other' scale). Is it possible to change the root note and have the Deluge quantize the notes to the closest neighbour? I'm looking for something similar to changing the scale (Maj/Min/etc.), but also transposing to a different key.

This is something I know from the Novation Circuit, and it was such a fun feature to play with.

I read through the section in the manual, but didn't seem to find anything there :(
Shooting my shot here and hoping for the best!

Thank you!

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Comments

  • 2
    AlterAlter TokyoPosts: 100
    edited October 2022

    To transpose from Fmin to Gmaj, in the scale mode, SHIFT+ press UP/DOWN knob and turn clockwise +2, then press SHIFT+ SCALE to select major scale. This is not a fun operation. I don't think deluge is so much fun to operate..

    Post edited by Alter on
  • 0
    TYDETYDE GermanyPosts: 16

    Oh wow, okay that all makes complete logical sense, I'll give it a shot when I get home this evening. Thanks so much @Alter :smiley:

  • 1
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 1,017

    @Alter said:
    To transpose from Fmin to Gmaj, in the scale mode, SHIFT+ press UP/DOWN knob and turn clockwise +2, then press SHIFT+ SCALE to select major scale. This is not a fun operation. I don't think deluge is so much fun to operate..

    What, you'd rather dive into a menu to do these things than using those shortcuts?
    Now that would be un-fun in my opinion

    ~ Distinguished Delugate ᕕ( ◎_◎)ᕗ

  • 1
    AlterAlter TokyoPosts: 100
    edited November 2022

    Although deluge has so many buttons, these transpose shortcuts change parameters cyclically or continuously (major>minor>dorian... / +1,+2 semitone). Circuit and Op-z can do them more musically and fun.

    Post edited by Alter on
  • 1
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 1,017

    @Alter said:
    Although deluge has so many buttons, these transpose shortcuts change parameters cyclically or continuously (major>minor>dorian... / +1,+2 semitone). Circuit and Op-z can do them more musically and fun.

    I agree the scale setting could involve less button presses to get to the desired scale in the list.

    You can quickly set the root note by holding Scale button and pressing a note on the grid keyboard or the audition pads :)

    ~ Distinguished Delugate ᕕ( ◎_◎)ᕗ

  • 1
    AlterAlter TokyoPosts: 100

    @Icoustik said:
    You can quickly set the root note by holding Scale button and pressing a note on the grid keyboard or the audition pads :)

    Yes, but unfortunately, existing notes are not transposed in this way :'(

  • 0
    TYDETYDE GermanyPosts: 16

    Thanks for the contribution @Alter , it worked perfectly :)
    Of course not quite as performative as other sequencers, but luckily still available.
    This was actually mainly for me to match a track to some vocals I got from a friend, so it all worked out in the end <3

  • 1
    TOTALTOTAL Posts: 111
    edited November 2022

    Are these posts written by one person?> @Icoustik said:

    @Alter said:
    Although deluge has so many buttons, these transpose shortcuts change parameters cyclically or continuously (major>minor>dorian... / +1,+2 semitone). Circuit and Op-z can do them more musically and fun.

    I agree the scale setting could involve less button presses to get to the desired scale in the list.

    You can quickly set the root note by holding Scale button and pressing a note on the grid keyboard or the audition pads :)

    As a side note,, indeed, one of the options to streamline workflow would be to have the scale show - and not change upon the first shift plus scale press. Also, instead of alternating with consecutive presses, this could be done with the select knob.

    Also, now (4.0.1) when you switch scale off and on again, the previous scale selection appears to be lots. Two things here.
    1. it would be logical to retain it per this project.
    2. especially if the scale has been by the user.

    Still, I think what Deluge does now is it resets scale to the most logical setting based on the notes throughout pattern (or project?), which is a valuable functionality, which, in the face of the above improvements, would then need to show as aside of scales.

    Thus, press shift + scale

    If scale was on, shows current scale setting.
    Press back to leave menu.
    Turn select for the following options:
    keep
    reset
    major
    major.
    minor
    minor.
    dorian
    dorian.
    ...
    other
    Transpose

    Dot would indicate the scale has been modified by user. Better than other in this case because more specific.

    This is where transpose option might show in say, version 5:)
    Selecting transpose would show current root note, with turning select to change
    after confirming new root
    all scales would show as
    current
    major
    minor
    dorian
    ...
    (no 'other')

    Selecting current here would enable transposing all project notes to a different root note, within the same scale. Ideal if you have already tweaked the scale.

    my 2 c. I hope this does not hijack the thread.

    Post edited by TOTAL on
  • 2
    rezareza los angelesModerator, Beta Tester Posts: 603

    +1 on displaying the current scale when you first hit shift+scale.

  • 1
    TOTALTOTAL Posts: 111

    And this could be applied to a number of other functions, such as tempo. You may want to check tempo without affecting the beat - and pitch, if delay is active.

  • 0
    rezareza los angelesModerator, Beta Tester Posts: 603

    @TOTAL said:
    And this could be applied to a number of other functions, such as tempo. You may want to check tempo without affecting the beat - and pitch, if delay is active.

    one trick you can do for tempo is hold learn/input and turn tempo. it non-destructively halves or doubles the BPM, it only messes things up if your doing midi with external gear, otherwise it's a quick way to switch. i do agree w you though !

  • 0
    TOTALTOTAL Posts: 111

    That's an interesting trick. I am not using an external synth, and hope to retain GAS control so as to 'limit' myself to mere subtractive, FM, multisampling & wavetables synthesis available onboard, but it shows Deluge potential as a sequencer.

  • 1
    TOTALTOTAL Posts: 111
    edited November 2022

    @Alter said:
    To transpose from Fmin to Gmaj, in the scale mode, SHIFT+ press UP/DOWN knob and turn clockwise +2, then press SHIFT+ SCALE to select major scale. This is not a fun operation. I don't think deluge is so much fun to operate..

    So essentially, you make all notes available, shift all content to new root note and superimpose the type of scale. Good to know, thanks.

    @TYDE said:
    looking for something similar to changing the scale (Maj/Min/etc.), but also transposing to a different key.

    Hi. Don't want this to sound like I have anything against the Novation method, but there a couple of things here.
    First, being able to reassign the root without modifying the composition is in itself something I think we don't want to lose as we have good made better. I don't know much about scales but based on my experience with Scaler2 midi effect for DAWs, precisely the same chord, i.e. one consisting of a given set of notes, has different character and a different host of follow-ups depending on what the root note is assumed to be. In lay terms, it may sound like the base chord for one song but add intensity of another, all other factors being equal. This is quite bizarre, but also fascinating and completely new to me.
    So if you create a chord you like, you may still build dozens of completely different compositions in different keys. You may have created it as chord I for a song only to thing after a while it may be a IV or a V of the song or for the subsequent part, in which case the root note should be reassigned. In that respect, the functionality the way it is should stay to support more flexibility of composing interesting progressions.

    When it comes to the functionality you use in Novations, I am sure this may be very useful for three things.
    One, creative process at home for songs to be bounced to audio. Two, on-stage harmony improvisations. Three, home-made and tested transitions to be quickly recreated on-stage.
    The second case I would consider completely outside of my capacities - I could not improvise with scale changes with confidence. The audience would go out after my two leaps of faith max.
    As for creation at home, I would not mind as-is presented by @Alter. I can see how menu diving may be a hindrance for some people though. Do you do many such changes on your Novation? Can you present some track of yours with such changes?

    Three, there is an easy way already. You can create one 'scene' in a given key and scale, save it. copy it to another pattern, do the change the menu-diving way, save it next to the first one. Voilla.
    Now when you are on stage, fire pattern one, do some performance around it, then switch to the other one - and it happens seamlessly. Any good?

    Menu diving in itself is not bad; it expands possibilities without increasing the size of desk occupied by the device, or the need to order a new better model for every new feature.

    Where it fails is I think live performance, and my point is that for most users probably, scale changes are not what they want to take chances with when someone is listening. I might be wrong though.

    Post edited by TOTAL on
  • 1
    synthriksynthrik Sweden Posts: 22

    @reza said:
    +1 on displaying the current scale when you first hit shift+scale.

    It just accidentally occurred to me that a key combination to display the current scale already exists: scale+audition pad for current base note.

    You have to be in scale mode though. In keyboard mode it resets your scale to major.

  • 0
    TOTALTOTAL Posts: 111

    sounds promising but as I try to follow, keeps resetting to major.

    Pressing scale plus base note pad as suggested (only possible in non-keyboard because in keyboard audition pads are redundant; they could be used to play chords as in the newest launchpad pro :wink: ), deluge shows major scale each time. Seems to reset to major when you do that.
    ?

  • 1
    synthriksynthrik Sweden Posts: 22
    edited December 2022

    Haha, @TOTAL, you are right. It turns out I had used enough notes in the clip when I tried this in scale mode so that the dellie detected the scale I was in correctly. Good news is that there's workaround to be exploited here if you just prepare a little:

    • In scale mode, scroll vertically to highs or lows that you dont need and add each note in the scale to the clip at least once, then mute those notes.

    Now, when you press scale+base note, existing notes will be untouched and your current scale will be detected and displayed. And it works in keyboard mode too!

    Post edited by synthrik on
  • 0
    rezareza los angelesModerator, Beta Tester Posts: 603

    great finds @synthrik !

  • 0
    TOTALTOTAL Posts: 111
    edited December 2022

    Okay, so this, essentially, refreshes scale association, but it does the trick and quickly. ^^

    Post edited by TOTAL on
  • 1
    TYDETYDE GermanyPosts: 16

    @synthrik said:
    Haha, @TOTAL, you are right. It turns out I had used enough notes in the clip when I tried this in scale mode so that the dellie detected the scale I was in correctly. Good news is that there's workaround to be exploited here if you just prepare a little:

    • In scale mode, scroll vertically to highs or lows that you dont need and add each note in the scale to the clip at least once, then mute those notes.

    Now, when you press scale+base note, existing notes will be untouched and your current scale will be detected and displayed. And it works in keyboard mode too!

    Haha awesome trick! Love the lateral thinking, well done :)

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