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Live perfomance hassles 😬

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borututuforteborututuforte Posts: 6
edited June 12 in General Discussion

Hi! Yesterday was my second gig with the Deluge and I'm torn apart again between loving and hating the Deluge. I'll list my main problems. Is anybody else struggling with these?

➜ I get super confused about what is inside each clip. Yes, the lights indicate notes or even audio clip peaks and you can long press clips to see what kind of clip it is - but in a stressful live situation you can still get "lost" pretty easily IMO. I ended up (un-)muting clips randomly at times which is a shame... The possibility to name clips yourself (all kinds of them!) would help with this.

➜ The looper is very confusing and I kept messing up because of it. I used a MIDI foot controller to trigger looping (Icon G-Board) and recorded guitar loops. Sometimes, for no obvious reason, recording didn't start. Probably the empty audio clip I prepared wasn't armed anymore or something, no idea why. At other times the Deluge started recording, but not on the audio clip, but on some other synth track, because apparently the audio clip has to be the last one you touched. If you mess up timing and don't end recording in time, stuff gets messed up and you have to press undo. The looper needs to be rock solid in a live setting, simplifying the operation is necessary.

➜ I used a MIDI controller with knobs & faders (Akai Midimix). Turning knobs often results in ugly parameter jumps as there is no "pick up" mode. So say I have one knob at maximum, load up the next song and in this one I want to use it to fade in a sample. I'd have to move it from max to min as fast as possible, probably producing some unwanted sound. That stuff is embarassing when playing live. Otherwise it works quite well and opens up lots of possibilites. A pick up mode for MIDI control would be great.

➜ Why the hell is the delay still set up to completely freak out when turned up more than halfway? It would be ok if it did that at 100%, but this way you have to be extremely careful to stay inside the allowed range. This is extremely unsafe when playing live, not useful and just stupid.

➜ The 4.0 firmware seems to be a bit wonky at times. Before the gig I had problems with USB hubs not working (I need one to connect both MIDI controllers) and had to get a powered USB hub to ensure a solid connection. During the gig I had a weird bug where MIDI notes sent to an external synthesizer triggered only after 1 or 2 measures played. Also when loading a new song while another one plays, there can be unpleasant pop noises when pressing "load". It looks a bit like the MIDI and USB stuff might need a cleanup.

I really like the Deluge, it looks great and offers everything you need, but after this gig where I felt like I stumbled through my own songs while the machine kept on tricking me, I think about having to drop my "dawless"-dogma and just set up a laptop next time.

Post edited by borututuforte on

Comments

  • 1
    jensgjensg Berlin, GermanyBeta Tester Posts: 156

    I feel you.

    You can actually rename your clips (in arranger, but it translates to song view).

    The looper is way too complicated and errorprone, I agree. For the most part, just loop recording would be ok and why is it so hard to cut of the beginning (with the ugly "reverse" hack)? this makes the looper unusable for me at least. also: shifting the start point of the audio inside the looper is not possible which hinders any control if you mess up recording in the first place.

    yes a midi pickup mode would be great.

    the delay makes no sense at all. why would you need to have a delay completely messing up your sound? it has no practical use and is just very very dangerous. I agree.

    and to add to that:

    yes all around the deluge you find these "clicky" errors / glitches that mess up your sound real bad. for example the loop points in a sample are mostly impossible to get without clicking. a small fade (as in most samplers) would remedy this.

    when having two clips with different levels there is an audible click in it when changing between them. I know this is expected but unpleasant nonetheless and could be remedied with a small fade or so.

    when changing the delay times there are very nasty clicks audible.

    when engaging the filter for a whole kit for example (HPF) there is an audbible click when doing so.

    when using the stutter effect, very nasty clicks are heard most of the time. a small fade / transition of sort would remedy this. almost unusable in a track and a shame it is not automatable.

    the bitcrusher and the decimation are very very harsh, digital und super-unmusical for my taste at least. they dont fit anywhere and just plainly destroy everything, but not in nice way. but that might just be my tastebuds being too sensitive.

    so getting this stuff fixed is not a "feature request", but these are rather unpolished corners of the deluge. you really have to watch every move to not get a clicky mess, which is impossible to "fix in post".

    It sometimes feels like an advanced prototype. I do like it and play with every day. but f.e. apps like koala sampler gets this stuff right making a very musical playground spitting out very smooth results. the deluge could be this. so i agree with your sentiment that the deluge is in a weird middle ground.

    Anyway not wanting to bash, just stating my experience with this kit. again: i use it daily so maybe the "faults" are just staring back at me daily...

  • 0

    @jensg said:
    You can actually rename your clips (in arranger, but it translates to song view).

    Thanks a lot, I'll try that! Also good to know that someone has the same struggles. I agree about bitcrush and sample rate reduction being too harsh too quickly (a dry/wet control could fix this), but being digital kinda is their point ;).

  • 0
    jensgjensg Berlin, GermanyBeta Tester Posts: 156

    Well this is often the case with the fx on the deluge, their range is too small. going from doing nothing at all to way over the top is too fast. I get their digital nature, but its a musical instrument after all and having FX scream into your ear is nothing I like. but this is just my take on things.

    the click-stuff is more important bc its not a taste issue but just oversights or lack of polishing.

  • 1
    djAziddjAzid AmsterdamPosts: 95

    For simple looping, why not put a RC505 MK2 next to it ?
    That would solve the looping problem.

    Well, if you get confused what's inside a clip because you might have so many, put some virtual spacers (tracks w/ velocity 0) in between every few blocks [drumkits/synth/other] sections. That way, you keep them seperated somewhat. And you don't have to remember so much.

    And yeah, bitcrush & samplerate reduction come in a bit too fast/loud.
    But I have no clicky noises...

  • 2
    jensgjensg Berlin, GermanyBeta Tester Posts: 156

    For keeping an overview of my projects, I tend to color code the clips (you can change their color with shift - turn horizontal encoder). I have this system

    green = drums.
    red = bass
    blue = synth and all other melodies, samples, etc
    yellow = vocal or fx

    this way I pretty much know what kind of stuff is in the clip even if I forgot what the song was like.

  • 0
    djAziddjAzid AmsterdamPosts: 95

    @jensg said:
    For keeping an overview of my projects, I tend to color code the clips (you can change their color with shift - turn horizontal encoder). I have this system

    There is one downside to that. You lose the ability to turn on multiple tracks at the same time. Like: drum1+bass2+synth2 and next drum2+bass1+synth3 and so on. Which is quite handy.

  • 2
    jensgjensg Berlin, GermanyBeta Tester Posts: 156

    There is one downside to that. You lose the ability to turn on multiple tracks at the same time. Like: drum1+bass2+synth2 and next drum2+bass1+synth3 and so on. Which is quite handy.

    Maybe I misspoke. I don’t mean the section color but instead the color of the clip itself. Enter a clip and shift-turn horizontal encoder. Now the clip color changes. You can even change kit rows by itself.

    This is different then changing the section (color) which the clip belongs to.

  • 1
    pogodancepogodance United KingdomPosts: 22

    The quest for the perfect all in one box may never end. MPC is too bland, Force is the size of a car, Octatrack is too mad, Deluge is... brilliant for composition but will always be incomplete for production.

    I sometimes wonder if 1010 Blackbox is the answer for performance / looping / archive / glue but I fear that's just because it's the one I've never owned and therefore am not yet delighted/annoyed by!

  • 1
    volstehvolsteh CroatiaPosts: 332

    ...just get a 2nd deluge;D

    πŸ…½πŸ…ΎπŸ†…πŸ…ΈπŸ…²πŸ…΄ πŸ…³πŸ…΄πŸ…»πŸ†„πŸ…ΆπŸ…ΈπŸ…ΎπŸ…½πŸ…ΈπŸ†‚πŸ†ƒ?

  • 0

    @pogodance said:
    The quest for the perfect all in one box may never end. MPC is too bland, Force is the size of a car, Octatrack is too mad, Deluge is... brilliant for composition but will always be incomplete for production.

    Very well put! :D For the moment I decided to sell the Deluge and got the Force. It's really too big and a bit ponderous, but I'm excited about the crazy sound design possibilites that exceed those of the Deluge by far. There's certainly no perfect box and I'm curious how long I'll stick with this one.

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