Saving MIDI mappings in kits & synths.
core44
Posts: 11
I've spent time setting up an Ableton template which allows me to completely control the deluge using Ableton and in-turn , push 2. This works great. I've set-up 40+ macros, each of which are mapped to a different parameter on the deluge. Once all the controls were learnt I then saved the deluge preset, then via the computer copied the block from the preset XML file and inserted it into every synth and kit preset I have, so whichever preset load I use I am able to have full control via Ableton/push2. Groovy.
My issue is whenever I create a new synth or kit on the deluge (shift + synth / kit) my mappings are obviously not included, so I have to either remap the new preset, or access the SD card and paste my block into the newly created XML file.
Would it be possible (future firmware) to allow saving a 'default_midiKnobs.xml' file in the root of the SD card. If a new preset (synth/kit) is created on the deluge and a 'default midiKnobs' file exists in the SD root, it could use this to apply those mappings to the new preset? Huge time saver!
The other issue I'm having is being unable to save mappings for the pads / keyboard for my presets. For synths this is fairly quick to fix, as you only need to learn one key to map the full keyboard each time, but for kits I have to remap every pad (16+) every time I want to control the kit via midi controller. Is this normal? Should the kit preset not map the full keyboard in the same way the synth preset does... from learning one single key? And also, should these mappings not be saved to the preset XML file whenever learnt?
Once refined I'll share my Ableton template with whoever wants it. Having macros with deluge parameter values showing on the Push2 screen makes for a fantastic pairing.
Comments
make an initialized synth preset and kit preset that have all the midi mappings present then save it. when you are about to create a new synth, load that preset first then continue as normal. i have a folder called "initialized" that has different presets where turning external gear's knobs will affect deluge's parameters, one for my polysynth, one for another groovebox, etc.
the reason midi-learn isn't saved per patch is because it also saved the midi channel used. so say you load a synth preset and a kit preset, well it turns out both were mapped on midi channel: 2. so now when you hit a key, you hear sounds trigger from both clips. or imagine if you aren't aware of what clip is what channel, when you turn a filter knob it's turning multiple other clip's parameters unintentionally.
i do think some proper midi preset functionality would be very handy. who knows! it could be something that gets proper support in the future. but for now you have to work with the limitations and there are certainly ways to do so.
for example, since midi-learn isn't saved per preset, well..you can save a project template and the midi-mappings for pads/keyboards will stay there. so now you can think about making an ableton-initialized SONG template, and then spend less time setting up. in that song template, you can make sure all the different clips are on different midi channels, so then if you want to trigger drums you switch to midi channel 3 on your device, synth pad channel 2, bass synth channel 1, and so on.
lastly, midi learning kit clips is done individually to allow for customizing which key or pad holds that sample. useful for devices with big pads you would find on devices like the MPC, sp404, etc. i suppose there's something nice about having it just work chromatically, but not every device is arranged like that.
Thanks for the reply. I forgot to mention I have already created myself some default init patches for synth and kit with my params mapped as you suggested. This is definitely a useable fix for now, although I have run into a couple of minor problems.. such as the situation where you're not ready to save the patch you're working on, but want to create another new patch.
I see your point regarding midi channels and how it could get messy across multiple clips.... and also the issue with midi devices having various types of pad layouts. going to look into setting up an Ableton project template as you suggested, so thanks for the idea.
Definitely keen for some development into midi presets / defaults somehow. I'd guess default mappings would be easy to implement by hooking into the function that creates new synth and kit patches... if there's a default_midiKnobs.xml in the SD root, then its contents are copied into the new patch XML when it's created... i guess once you go this far then there is no reason it couldn't be a full XML default settings for the patches. default_synth.xml and default_kit.xlm. Edit them as you please. Would be very useful.
thanks again!
Hoping potentially for some help here. Im trying to map params to push in Ableton but can not for the life of me get them to learn from macros. What I've done is create an external instrument and send midi out of there to the deluge. I am able to map the notes from push to play the synth patch on the deluge but for some reason I can not map deluge params to the push macros on the grouped external instrument device. Is this the wrong approach? Id love to take a look at your Ableton template.
@Prnts are you using a midi clip on the deluge to send macros to ableton? if you're using a synth or kit clip, those won't send midi or info for ableton to receive.
Sorry I was referring to the macros on the ableton side. I want to successfully create a deluge synth preset that has all of the mappable parameters mapped to an ableton custom instrument so I can control it with push.
I can get as far as mapping the notes so push plays them. I’m not new to midi control so this has been a bit frustrating
enter a parameter on the deluge, eg. lpf freq. hold learn/input, then move the knob on the push you want to control it.
does that work?
I did that and it's not working. It's a push 3 not standalone. This is why im reaching out to see if there was something I missed here.
midi mapping on push3 non-standalone isn't supported directly on the device.
found this information on this youtube video that gives an overview on push 3 midi:
Ok so I just found a solution. There is a free max device called dial to midi cc. It works great for what I wanted to do. You add dial to midi device for as many params you want to learn on your deluge and then group them together and map the macros to control each instance of the device.
The main problem to my understanding is that ableton doesnt want to send cc's if they arent automation inside of a clip. Luckily I was able to find a simple solution. Hope this is useful for other people out there
Once the kits' instrument row's are mapped to a given external controller's pads (by learning them one by one) why are these mappings not saved in the kit (even when existing kit is either overwritten or saved as a new kit)? When restarting Deluge these mappings are gone. What am I doing wrong?
in community firmware, you can learn a whole kit row with one learn/input action.
keyboard mappings are saved within a song, not within a preset. only parameter mappings are saved within the preset itself.
Thank you for the explanation. There's lots of confusion around this subject and no clear answer, except this one. Thanks.
I'm unable to do it. I'm in a song view and press LEARN/INPUT and kits's audition pad. The pad is blinking and as expected changes its color upon sending a note from the external controller (MPK MINI II). But then nothing is learned.
EDIT: Never mind, this one was a user error
Not sure why but this does not work either. I'm learning entire kit row by row, then saving the song. Reloading the song: the mappings are gone...