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External Endless Encoder MIDI control

1
yamacilleryamaciller ViennaPosts: 27
edited May 2021 in Deluge Help

Hi.
I have successfully connected a Beatstep device from Arturia and can map the Encoders in 'absolute mode' to any parameter on the deluge as expected.

Is there a way to make an external Endless Encoder work like the golden knob functionality?

Thanks and best regards.
Werner

Post edited by yamaciller on
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Best Answer

  • 0
    hexagon5unhexagon5un MunichPosts: 121
    Answer ✓

    The problem with encoders and MIDI is pretty fundamental. There isn't really an incremental data type in MIDI: it's always absolute.

    All the standard MIDI controls (pitch bend, mod wheel, aftertouch, program change...) send absolute values. With an encoder, you want to send incremental data: update the parameter by one. To translate this into standard MIDI, the sending device keeps track of the current value, increments it according to the encoder, and sends this new (absolute) value.

    This is important to understand b/c the device with the encoder also has to know the current value. For the knob to do different things depending on which clip is selected on the Deluge, the two would have to somehow communicate about which clip is selected on the D. And they can't really do this.

    (I suppose you could define an incremental data type if both the sending and receiving devices agreed that all messages on a particular controller worked that way. But different manufacturers would all need to agree on the same convention.)

    The best setup with the D is an external fader box, IMO. You can change multiple parameters of multiple clips, all full-time and easily accessible. This is obviously useful for volumes / fades, but also for any other parameters. Faders are also a good fit for MIDI -- they're absolute rather than incremental (like pots) by their very nature.

    So your question is what to do with a Beatstep once you have a Deluge...

Answers

  • 0
    Too_MereToo_Mere Chicago, IL, USABeta Tester, Mentor Posts: 993

    Yes, I believe endless encoders should be able to learn to any parameter, same as any other knob.

  • 0
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 1,017

    @yamaciller said:
    Hi.
    I have successfully connected a Beatstep device from Arturia and can map the Encoders in 'absolute mode' to any parameter on the deluge as expected.

    Is there a way to make an external Endless Encoder work like the golden knob functionality?

    Thanks and best regards.
    Werner

    What exactly do you mean by like the golden knobs?

    ~ Distinguished Delugate ᕕ( ◎_◎)ᕗ

  • 0
    yamacilleryamaciller ViennaPosts: 27
    edited May 2021

    Hello.
    Sry for the poor explanation.
    I try a bit better as follows.

    I am connecting a Novation Launch Control XL, which has Fixed Poties. This is brilliant with a 1:1 mapping.
    Lets say one knob with a range from 1-50 to a value on Deluge. Absolute directly mapped. Always available. Fantastic, very intuitive.

    An Endless knob makes sense, if I can map it to more than one parameter. Not simultaneously, but as a universal input to parameters.

    The Golden (Endless) knobs do it in the way, that it changes the value which is actually mapped to it.
    Lets say the filter value for clip 1, change to clip 2 I can change the filter value with the same knob. So Deluge maps the parameters dynamically. The point is, that the value, which is mapped can be changed from its actual value + or -.

    The Endless Knob from the Arturia Beatstep behaves like an Absolute, fixed knob. So the moment I assign Frequency from clip 1 and I assign the knob to frequency clip 2 it remembers its own value - as it has been set at any time, and assigns this value to the actual value assigned on the Deluge.

    Practical example.
    Assign Frequency of the hpf of clip 1 and clip 2 to the same knob. Change the value by turning the knob to lets say 50. Change to clip 2 (lets say the current value of the freq. of the filter of clip 2 is 0), the moment I turn the knob, the knobs's value is assigned to the clip's 2 frq. value - in this case 50. So I have a immediate change from 0 to 50. From that value I can adjust it as usual.

    I have to mention, that via the Arturia Software configuration I tried the "Relative" functionality of the Encoder. But that did not work. Deluge couldn't read the change of the value correctly. Only the "Absolute" mode assignment worked (as expected). (Any other mode didn't work neither).

    In contrast to that, when I do the same procedure with the Gold Knob, I can adjust the frq. value of clip 2 from (its actual value 0) up without jumping the value first to 50.

    I am wondering, if that behavior can be achieved with the external Endless Knob as well.

    What would be the benefit.

    Looking at some reoccurring parameters (just take e.g. the volume of a clip), instead of using one knob (or slider) for each clip separately (which definitely has its advantages in other ways), I could use a single knob for every clip (assigning the same parameter)

    I think it is a workflow question. I love the direct intuitive connection between hardware and function (also a reason to get away from software).
    But some additional endless controllers could be useful?

    I hope I could lay out what I have in mind.
    Is this more a fundamental structural question? I am pretty new to all this wonderful devices. They all have different functionalities.

    The simpler, the better. Deluge is wonderful and lovely.
    This just comes into my mind because of the Arturia Endless Knob rather than the Deluge. (I actually dont need the beatstep any more - because of the possibilities of the Deluge - now, but I want to make use of it, more as a Midi controller way rather than a sequencer)

    All the best.
    Werner

    Post edited by yamaciller on
  • 0
    yamacilleryamaciller ViennaPosts: 27

    Hey Hexagon,

    thank you for the detailed explanation!

    I had a feeling, that this is more a midi/comm issue sending/receiving data.

    I am happy using a faderbox - the launch control - which works perfectly.

    .... probably I will use the Beatstep for something like visuals in TD or so ;)

    All the best.
    Werner

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