External MIDI keyboard individually controlling tracks: SYNTH, KIT, MIDI, CV
Overbeck
United KingdomPosts: 8
Hi,
I will go straight with describing what I am doing, what I am trying to achieve but what is happening instead. I will give an example with the Deluge's internal synth engine and another example using external MIDI hardware synths. Questions at the end.
I create KIT track and program a 4/4 kick just to have something to play to.
I create a SYNTH track, I map my external MIDI keyboard to that track so I can record in let's say a 4 bar chord progression.
I create a new SYNTH track and I want to record in using a different SYNTH preset let's say a melody using my external keyboard. Naturally, I was expecting that because I mapped the previous SYNTH that my keyboard would be recognised, but then I just repeat the learn map command. Yes, now I can play the second SYNTH, but the first SYNTH which I mapped is also being played.
What I am after is to be able to play the second SYNTH track and record without playing or affecting the recorded sequence of the first synth.
Here is where I get stuck and I apologise in advance if the solution to this problem is somewhere in the manual but I have honestly did a thorough search.
Now for the second example similarly:
The 5 pin DIN output of the Deluge is connected to a microKORG IN and then THRU to Moog Sirin in.
microKORG midi CH 1
Moog Sirin midi CH 2
I create KIT track and program a 4/4 kick just to have something to play to.
I create a MIDI track and learn external MIDI keyboard. I leave CH set to 1 and I play a 4 bar chord progression.
I create a MIDI track and learn external MIDI keyboard. I set to CH 2 but again I am now playing both the Sirin and the microKORG.
Questions:
How do you create separation of what tracks are being played by the external midi keyboard? I am trying to get to some workflow similar to the MPC1000 where you are able to create MIDI tracks and have the external keyboard only play the track you are currently "looking at" / selected. In the case of the Deluge have whichever track you are in clip mode be the only one which is receiving the keyboard performance MIDI signal.
Isn't there a way to not have to do the learn command for each new track created and instead have a default setting where each created track expects to receive MIDI signal from the external MIDI keyboard? I don't have my MPC now with me but there was a way to set the MPC so that it receives all MIDI signal from all CH and then you just you select a MIDI track and set the MIDI CH output.
Comments
Each new track needs to be learned to a midi controller in order to be played by it. The best way to switch between is to use a different channel for each track. This will separate so each clip can be recorded individually.
Thanks for the reply.
Yes, I thought of this but this is not the solution I was after as it is not feasible for my workflow and setup. This solution would mean I would always have to set the external MIDI output channel of the keyboard and keep pressing the LEARN + AUDITION PAD command to MAP to the keyboard. During a live dynamic performance this isn't great. It would be so much easier if all tracks just listen to the MIDI input and only play the current track in clip mode .
As long as you set up before your performance, all you would have to do is change midi channels on your keyboard. This is arguably quicker than finding and entering the desired clip.
I’m sorry it’s not what you’re hoping for. But that’s how it works. It is advantageous for recording multiple things at once tho.
This is not necessarily quicker. With my current setup I have, to change the output of my keyboard requires a sequence of 3 commands. The keyboard I am looking to get as I see in the manual can only be changed via a webapp via WIFI which would make it even slower.
Also, the way you are suggestion to me seems like you need to prepare the setup with a defined amount of tracks. The way I perform is that I have the performance structure in my head but not limited to an amount of tracks. Sometimes I will want to create more or less tracks for each external instrument.
Good bad or otherwise, I think sometimes it’s necessary to adjust one’s workflow and/or performance to fit limitations of the gear they have.
That or buy more gear ;-) haha
I found a work around but it's not quite what I am after. Still, it would be good if the Deluge could have the functionality I was describing in the first post of this thread.
What I did was I plugged in the external MIDI keyboard set to output CH1 into the MIDI in of my Digitakt. On the Digitakt you can set the "AUTO CHANNEL" which I set the CH1. Then on the Digitakt Pattern view I set MIDI A to CH1, MIDI B to CH2 and so on. On the Deluge, I create tracks and LEARN each individual channel coming from the Digitakt. This way I can select easily which channel I want to play via the Digitakt by pressing any of the lower row buttons 9 to 16. I guess the Deluge's design is trying to invite the user to use LOOP command recording to be able to create new tracks while you are performing live and yes this seems to work nicely.
Now, I stumbled across another problem which is place belongs on the Elektronauts forum...
The SUSTAIN PEDAL information is not transmitted via the MIDI OUT of the Digitakt, but only via THRU and if you were to use THRU then the new workflow described just above wouldn't work as you'd be always be outputting CH1.
I think MPC1000 would be a better device to replace the Digitakt for this MIDI CH selection functionality as I am pretty sure it always transmits SUSTAIN PEDAL information. Also, you can use the MPC's two foot switch inputs to go back and forward tracks so potentially could be a neat way for selecting channels giving more freedom in the hands. I don't have my MPC1000 with me but as soon as I get my hands on it I will let you know how it all works out.
It is a bit unfortunate as I as intending to not use the MPC1000 in the live set up, as having the Digitakt and Deluge makes it redundant to me and it's also kind of big. I bought the Deluge hoping it would replace the live performance insufficiencies the MPC1000 has. The Deluge literally does everything what I want it to do which the MPC1000 doesn't but the Deluge can't do that single functionality I am after which I mentioned in the very first post of this thread which ironically the MPC1000 is able to do.
Does anyone know of a smaller device which can take a MIDI input and then on the device have a quick way to just change the MIDI output number?
... maybe I could build or someone has built a device which just does that using an Arduino MIDI Shield? I will let you know here as well how that idea goes.
Not sure which device you’re sending sustain to, but the Deluge doesn’t currently respond to sustain pedal messages. So the MPC1000 won’t help the sustain issue if it’s the Deluge you’re sending it to.
That's not true. I am literally sustaining a chord as I am typing this. Got an external MIDI keyboard with a sustain pedal input with its MIDI OUT connected to the MIDI IN of the Deluge. I have a MIDI track setup on the Deluge set to transmit to my microKORG. Now I just released the pedal and now I can't hear the chord.
Also, I tried to see if it records the sustain pedal. I pressed a very staccato note while holding the sustain pedal and sustained a note for an extended amount of time. When the sequence replayed itself that note didn't lose the sustain information.
Sorry I mean the Deluge synth engine doesn’t respond to sustain. Didn’t realize you were using an external synth
Yes, just checked and you are right. Sustain seems to not work on Deluge's SYNTH tracks but it definitely works on MIDI tracks.