Please familiarise yourself with the forum rules & guidelines

Odd time signatures, cross-screen

8

I'm doing odd time signatures by setting odd track lengths, e.g., for a 7/8 piece, a one-measure track is shortened a half-beat from the default to 14 16th notes. This gets awkward for longer tracks, where (at the default zoom level) the second measure starts on the last two columns of the first screen, the third measure starts with the last four columns of the second screen, etc. This also makes cross-screen useless, as screens no longer align with a consistent musical unit.

Is there a better way to do odd times? Is there a hack for getting cross screen to be as useful for a track in an odd time as it is for common time?

Answers

  • 3
    GentleGGentleG NetherlandsPosts: 8

    +1

    for 5/8 , 6/8 & 7/8 I would like a solution like the triplets view
    so maybe: hold [triplets view] and turn to set time signature

  • 0
    pfrfpfrf ca, u.s.a.Posts: 162

    Why is this thread marked “answered”? I’m interested to know what that answer was since it isn’t posted. OP, did you get a PM or something?

  • 0
    amiga909amiga909 Central EuropePosts: 1,066

    forum hacked? i see in loads of threads loads of “edited” in red color. cant remember seeing that much.

  • 1
    duelinmarkersduelinmarkers Austin TX USPosts: 135

    I think a reply is considered an answer by default. When I logged in just now, each reply was followed by a "Does this answer the question?" I gave each a "No," and now I'm guessing you'll no longer see it marked "Answered."

  • 1
    duelinmarkersduelinmarkers Austin TX USPosts: 135
    edited February 2019

    @GentleG said:

    for 5/8 , 6/8 & 7/8 I would like a solution like the triplets view

    I think this is best approach.

    I just played around with triplets view for 6/8 and thought it seemed fine. (To get to what I think is the truest representation I first doubled a blank track's length so I was zoomed to 8th notes, then turned on triplets view, then zoomed back out to 16th notes.) Have you found problems with this?

    so maybe: hold [triplets view] and turn to set time signature

    Thats a great idea! An alternative would be Shift-Triplets.

    Post edited by duelinmarkers on
  • 0
    VJFranzKVJFranzK Los Angeles USAPosts: 124

    Right! I have thought this also, while doing 5 and 7 Beat things.
    Might as well have each bar on one "screen" so we know what's happening

    Music, Visuals, Reviews of Synths, Drum Machines, Apps
    YouTube: VJFranzK

  • 0
    poldensteinpoldenstein italyPosts: 39

    Yes, working in odd time signatures and with polyrhythms gets problematic as soon as complexity is increased. Try putting together a few odd clips in arranger view and see what I mean. Probably the best way to display odd bars would be like in triplets view, using a white column to mark end of bar.

  • 0
    esc746esc746 IrelandPosts: 12

    I would vote for a solution that just shows a bar per screen, with no attempt to have the different rhythms cross screens. I realise that this breaks the usual display paradigm, but them polyrhythms are crazy critters!

  • 0
    duelinmarkersduelinmarkers Austin TX USPosts: 135

    An interesting issue to consider here is that triplets view doesn't actually remove or skip time from the bar, it just divides it up differently. At any reasonable zoom level, that division works cleanly with Deluge's 192nd note resolution. But 192 isn't evenly divisible by any more exotic beats-per-measure I'm likely to want (5, 7, 9), so even though we'd like to see this visualized like triplets view, it would have to be implemented very differently.

  • 0
    bazzmakabazzmaka CHPosts: 12

    +1
    Add the following use case: song with two parts, one in 4/4, the other one in 5/4. Program a drum clip for each part. Then (loop)-record an instrument in real-time for the two parts, toggling back and forth between them // First it would be nice to have a view that gives you a clear indication on where you are in the song. Currently, this is very confusing (see posts above). Second, because of the confusing graphic representation, I'm not even sure if recording over a 5/4 drum track works at all. Sometimes it seems to work, but sometimes the deluge wants to complete "the measure" (i.e. in 4/4, even if all other clips in the part are 5/4) before it jumps to the next row, or terminates and loops the clip, respectively.

  • 0
    PeeDeePeeDee AustraliaPosts: 2

    Hi All. Newb here. Just wondering if there's been any progress that anyone can report on with programing the Deluge in odd time signatures.
    I'm not a Deluge owner (yet), but was looking at an MPC Force until I discovered their weakness with time signature, poly meter and poly rhythm and came across a comment that the Deluge had the capabilities.
    But reading this thread I was not quite sure whether Deluge has the capability or if it does whether it is a laborious process to achieve. Ian Jorgensen has kindly confirmed the Deluge has the capability and I would love to hear from users how easy they find composing in odd meters
    When I say odd meters I mean 5,7,9,11,13,15 etc.
    Thanks

  • 0
    jwhitmorejwhitmore IrelandPosts: 7

    Thanks for the thread, saves me asking the question. I'll just add my, much more limited, use case. I wanted to do something with a few bars of 3/4 as an intro and then change to 4/4 for the rest of the tune. I tried to do that with triplet view in one short intro clip and then the other clips in normal view.

    Maybe I've not done it correctly, but it's not really working for me as, has been mentioned previously in the this conversation, triplet view is not really 3/4, it just divides up the bar differently. So in my case even thought I've got 3 and 4 beats in bars they are at completely different tempos, so 3 beats are spread over the 4 beat bar, (obviously as that's a triplet ;)

    Anyhow have to move to a laptop and use that.

  • 1
    WeebeatsieWeebeatsie Bonny ScotlandPosts: 8

    @jwhitmore said:
    Thanks for the thread, saves me asking the question. I'll just add my, much more limited, use case. I wanted to do something with a few bars of 3/4 as an intro and then change to 4/4 for the rest of the tune. I tried to do that with triplet view in one short intro clip and then the other clips in normal view.

    Maybe I've not done it correctly, but it's not really working for me as, has been mentioned previously in the this conversation, triplet view is not really 3/4, it just divides up the bar differently. So in my case even thought I've got 3 and 4 beats in bars they are at completely different tempos, so 3 beats are spread over the 4 beat bar, (obviously as that's a triplet ;)

    Anyhow have to move to a laptop and use that.

    Yep, like you said, triplet view is not 3/4. it is still 4/4 with each beat divided into 3 rather than 2 (or 4) So your tempo would be shifting by like 30%!
    For 3/4 Hold Shift and Press and turn <> to change clip length to 0.3.0 bars for every clip in that section. 3/4 is a lot easier to program than any odd numbers above 4, due to the grid. Even then it can get a bit mathsy if you are zooming in even just to 16ths etc.

    As for 5, 7, 9 and so on, programming in a silent "metronome" note on every beat as a visual reference point is helpful with kits but not so much with synths/melodic things. Other than that I'm not sure how to get around it once you are zoomed in...

  • 0
    jwhitmorejwhitmore IrelandPosts: 7

    @Weebeatsie said:
    For 3/4 Hold Shift and Press and turn <> to change clip length to 0.3.0 bars for every clip in that section. 3/4 is a lot easier to program than any odd numbers above 4, due to the grid. Even then it can get a bit mathsy if you are zooming in even just to 16ths etc.

    Thank you didn't know about that solution. I'll try that out, but just off the top of my head I'm wondering will that 3/4 clip have to have a different tempo from other clips, That's an interesting idea.

    Thanks again.

  • 0
    PeeDeePeeDee AustraliaPosts: 2

    @Weebeatsie said:

    For 3/4 Hold Shift and Press and turn <> to change clip length to 0.3.0 bars for every clip in that section.

    What does the '0.3.0 bars' mean? Like, what does the first zero refer to; the 3 must have something to do with 3/4 time signature (I would think 3 quarter notes per bar); and what does the final zero refer to?

  • 0
    WeebeatsieWeebeatsie Bonny ScotlandPosts: 8

    @PeeDee said:

    @Weebeatsie said:

    For 3/4 Hold Shift and Press and turn <> to change clip length to 0.3.0 bars for every clip in that section.

    What does the '0.3.0 bars' mean? Like, what does the first zero refer to; the 3 must have something to do with 3/4 time signature (I would think 3 quarter notes per bar); and what does the final zero refer to?

    That's what the display shows. The first number refers to bars, the second to beats and the final to sixteenths.
    It is relating to a default of 4/4. So 1 bar of 4/4 shows as 1.0.0 (1 bar, 0 beats, 0 sixteenths)
    So 0.3.0 means 0 bars, 3 beats, 0 sixteenths.
    You can also set it to 1.2.0 for 3/4 timing although technically this is 6/4.

  • 0
    WeebeatsieWeebeatsie Bonny ScotlandPosts: 8
    edited June 2020

    @jwhitmore said:

    @Weebeatsie said:
    For 3/4 Hold Shift and Press and turn <> to change clip length to 0.3.0 bars for every clip in that section. 3/4 is a lot easier to program than any odd numbers above 4, due to the grid. Even then it can get a bit mathsy if you are zooming in even just to 16ths etc.

    Thank you didn't know about that solution. I'll try that out, but just off the top of my head I'm wondering will that 3/4 clip have to have a different tempo from other clips, That's an interesting idea.

    Thanks again.

    No worries mate. The 3/4 section will be the same tempo as a 4/4 section. See the comment above for explanation :)

    Happy waltzing

    Post edited by Weebeatsie on
  • 0
    RasmusJesRasmusJes DenmarkPosts: 4

    +1. This is my absolutely most wanted update request.

Sign In or Register to comment.