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Looping fade outs

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DavidDavid GermanyPosts: 17
edited October 2022 in Deluge Help

Does anyone have a nice workflow hack for creating loops that fade out rather than just stop dead?
I am using a Nektar Pacer to control the Deluge like a boss looper, so my hands are a bit busy playing instruments.
I have experimented with the the release of the track I am looping on, but since the Looping function is mapped to the play/stop/record functions, the loop stops a little too abruptly and sounds un-natural.
Any help is much appreciated!

Post edited by David on
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Comments

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    jensgjensg Berlin, GermanyBeta Tester Posts: 253

    Put it in a kit, loop it and have a longer decay?

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    DavidDavid GermanyPosts: 17
    edited October 2022

    @jensg said:
    Put it in a kit, loop it and have a longer decay?

    Thanks for the input jensg, But it doesn't really fit with what I am doing. I am playing instruments and looping live, so there isn't time to put the audio clip into a kit. My hands are busy playing guitar, other wise I would just fade the track out manually.
    Basically, everything has to be done live and with my feet.
    The way I do it in Ableton live is by using a dummy clip that controls the output of the track I am looping in.
    And with the Boss loopers, it is one of the basic functions.
    I'm hoping there is a way to do it with the Deluge so it can be my only "stage computer".

    I appreciate the ideas though!

    Post edited by David on
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    jensgjensg Berlin, GermanyBeta Tester Posts: 253

    How long would you like this fade-out to be? And how would you like to control it?

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    DavidDavid GermanyPosts: 17

    @jensg said:
    How long would you like this fade-out to be? And how would you like to control it?

    I'd like it to last a few bars and control it with a midi switch on the Nektar Pacer.
    Or possibly trigger it near the end of the loop and have it fade out by the end of the loop.... either way, as long as it is a fade out the length isn't super important because I can play out with it.

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    rezareza los angelesBeta Tester Posts: 375
    edited October 2022

    i know it's a lot to ask for, but if there's a video demonstration you can provide it might be easier to think of a solution for your specific needs. mapping a midi device to the volume of a track could potentially be useful for you to custom fade/in/out volume automation as needed but maybe that actually isnt practical in the way deluge implements midi. my thought is that with video/audio of what you're trying to achieve we can crowd source some possible ways to get close to what you want

    Post edited by reza on
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    DavidDavid GermanyPosts: 17
    edited October 2022

    Thanks for the reply Reza,
    I am using Ableton live in this video, but it shows why a manual fadeout would be a bit tricky for me.
    In this case the fade out is quite long, I trigger it at 6:39.
    The controller triggers the star trek sample and activates a dummy clip in Ableton that controls the output of the Charango, Bass and Drums.

    Post edited by David on
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    rezareza los angelesBeta Tester Posts: 375

    instead of using an audio clip for what you want to loop, you could put the sample into a kit clip by itself beforehand, and this is how you control the sample throughout the performance. have the sample set to LOOP across all 16 beats of the 1 bar clip which will allow it to be a drone note; it will continue the sample loop seamlessly as long as the clip is green in song mode. make the release time of the sample set to 50. from there if you turn off clip from green to red you have a long-ish fade out time, maybe it's like 5-10 seconds? you could experiment with patching release to env1 +50 and maybe get longer fade out time.

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    DavidDavid GermanyPosts: 17

    Nice ideas there Reza, it seems like it would work for the vocal/spoken samples, but most of the time I am looping the instruments live and the instrument sound is what I want to fade out.
    If I let the "backing tracks" genie out of the bottle, it will never end and I will lose the live vibe of what I am trying to do.
    Other than spoken word samples and one shot drum samples, nothing I do live is prerecorded.
    I try to do all my sequencing and especially play/record the string instruments live.
    Hopefully it will be a future feature on the Deluge, but for what I am doing I might be stuck using Ableton for this kind of stuff.
    Thanks for the input, I hope I understand you correctly?
    Cheers.

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    rezareza los angelesBeta Tester Posts: 375

    ah yeah, i see what you're saying. i had assumed what was fading out was just samples in the background, when you bring in live recordings into the input of the deluge then the solution doesn't apply.

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    DavidDavid GermanyPosts: 17

    Either way, thanks for the input Reza!

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    Too_MereToo_Mere Chicago, IL, USABeta Tester, Mentor Posts: 969

    Best suggestion I have, considering what you’re trying to do, is to map a foot controller to the level of the clip or clips do you want to fade out and just do it manually with your foot.

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    DavidDavid GermanyPosts: 17

    Thanks Too_Mere!
    That is basically what I have been doing, I'm using a Boss FV-500L as an expression pedal through the Nektar Pacer to the Deluge.
    The main problem with that is, there is no way to map it to the last loop you have recorded when you are using a foot controller for looping.
    SometImes I am sitting on the floor playing Sitar or Esraj and my foot isn't in a great position.
    Also, it is a pain to reconfigure the pedal (basically just change a preset on the Pacer) from being a volume pedal for my amp to controlling the Deluge.
    I really just hope it becomes a function of the looper sometime down the line.

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    Too_MereToo_Mere Chicago, IL, USABeta Tester, Mentor Posts: 969

    You can set up the clips with mapping ahead of time. And still use the foot controller to close the loop. Otherwise yeah, have to rethink your approach if you’re set on the fade outs.

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    DavidDavid GermanyPosts: 17

    Yeah... I can play out of most situations, it is just an abrupt stop that I need to mask somehow.
    I have experimented with mapping a Play/Stop command and a sample to the same pedal.
    It works, but some of my songs are with only acoustic instruments and a sample of an outro chord might fool a few people, musicians in the audience will see it a mile away.
    It also takes away some of the improvisational nature of what I'm doing and replaces it with planning a fixed end that may or may not match the state of the song at the moment...
    The main point for me is to do as much live as I can, I don't want to appear to be hitting play on a backing track and doing a guitar solo over it.
    At the moment, Ableton is the only thing that can handle all my unrealistic expectations ;)
    It is just so nice to leave the laptop at home.
    I'll figure something out, at the moment it is only an issue on 3 songs in my set.
    The 90% that the Deluge can do to replace my laptop on stage is worth the effort in creating workarounds.

    Thanks for the input Too_mere
    If you can suggest any more interesting ways to end a piece with one footswitch, I'd appreciate it.

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    Too_MereToo_Mere Chicago, IL, USABeta Tester, Mentor Posts: 969

    I would suggest just trying a more hands on approach. I see you using your hands on the pedal anyway in the video. Making a delay/reverb tail and hitting mute would only take a second or two.
    I like to manipulate clip effects and arrange by muting and unmuting different loops as part of the performance and to make things dynamic. I find the best way is from the Deluge itself imo.
    Though I understand that may not work from the floor haha.

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