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Audio Clip artifacts when Deluge is slaved

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HannesHannes GermanyPosts: 83

Hi folks,
today I've noticed a strange behavior: I have an audio clip (a recorded Synth line). When I hit PLAY on the Deluge, this clip sounds just as it should. But when Deluge is slaved to Logic Pro X, the audio clips sound strange with having some artifacts. Hard to describe it sounds a bit like a bad time-stretching algorithm or something like that.

Any idea what's going on? I don't really know where to start with this issue so I haven't really tried anything up to now....

Thanks!

Comments

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    Too_MereToo_Mere Chicago, IL, USABeta Tester, Mentor Posts: 993

    Audio clips are indeed warped to the Deluge’s tempo. Is Logic sending a different clock tempo than what the audio was recorded at?

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    HannesHannes GermanyPosts: 83
    edited December 2021

    mmhhh. I recorded the audio of the synth by triggering it from the deluge (MIDI clip). So MIDI -> Synth -> Audio Out of Synth -> Mixer -> Audio Clip into Deluge.
    I think I pressed Play on the Deluge when I did that. Maybe it makes a difference when triggering it from Logic in this process?!? I will try that...
    But at least the tempo is definitely set to the same in both and was the same when recorded.

    Post edited by Hannes on
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    HannesHannes GermanyPosts: 83
    edited December 2021

    just tried it: makes no difference if I trigger PLAY (i.e. recording) from Logic or from Deluge when recording the audio. It gets messed up when afterwards triggering Play from Logic but not at all when triggering Play from Deluge directly.
    Thats a bad thing. Hope there is a solution...

    Could it have something to do with the fact, that the connection between my hardware and Deluge is MIDI 5pin and between Deluge and Logic os USB MIDI?

    Anyway, I'm sooo close to switch to a DAW that can be slaved so that Deluge is Master. Unfortunately Logic can't do that. Would be PITA of course

    Post edited by Hannes on
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    Too_MereToo_Mere Chicago, IL, USABeta Tester, Mentor Posts: 993

    Yeah that’s odd. I don’t use Logic but I use Ableton in this way and don’t have this issue. If tempos are matching I’d assume this is a case of clock jitter from Logic.

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    HannesHannes GermanyPosts: 83

    yeah that's probably it. I might try an other USB cable. who knows... thanks for your help!

    regarding Ableton: you mean you're using Ableton as Master? good to know that it works obviously....

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    sven_blobsven_blob France Beta Tester Posts: 153

    I use ableton too', slave to the Deluge to rec stems
    and works very well

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    HannesHannes GermanyPosts: 83

    @sven_blob said:
    I use ableton too', slave to the Deluge to rec stems
    and works very well

    are you using a dedicated MIDI interface to connect to your Computer or are you just going USB out Deluge -> USB in Computer? I wonder if a MIDI interface could solve my problem...

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    sven_blobsven_blob France Beta Tester Posts: 153

    External device but normaly usb works fine and maybe better..

  • 0
    sven_blobsven_blob France Beta Tester Posts: 153

    Maybe something wrong Ith your computer.. :)

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    HannesHannes GermanyPosts: 83

    I doubt that. but maybe...
    Did you ever try to slave Deluge to Ableton and playing back audio tracks that are on the Deluge?

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    sven_blobsven_blob France Beta Tester Posts: 153

    Look at your buffers pref

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    sven_blobsven_blob France Beta Tester Posts: 153

    no

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    sven_blobsven_blob France Beta Tester Posts: 153

    just use the daw for mastering and i prefer to use the D clock..

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    HannesHannes GermanyPosts: 83

    you mean I/O buffer in Logic's prefs for the Interface? Tried that with no success.

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    sven_blobsven_blob France Beta Tester Posts: 153

    that's what imean..so i don't know what you should do, sorry

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    HannesHannes GermanyPosts: 83

    thank you anyway

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    Too_MereToo_Mere Chicago, IL, USABeta Tester, Mentor Posts: 993

    @Hannes said:
    I doubt that. but maybe...
    Did you ever try to slave Deluge to Ableton and playing back audio tracks that are on the Deluge?

    I regularly do this. This is how I transfer audio clips to Ableton for mixing/mastering.
    I will say, if the Deluge used tap tempo before recording the audio, I think this can result in an exact tempo with more decimal places than the display will show. This can cause a discrepancy between recorded tempo and DAW sync.

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    HannesHannes GermanyPosts: 83
    edited December 2021

    just tried it with Ableton: its the same. when Ableton is Master and Deluge is slave, the audio on the Deluge gets smashed.
    I am sure that the tempo while recording on the deluge was set to 94 with the tempo knob. no tap tempo or anything. by the way: the sound artifacts are the same when changing the tempo on the Deluge to a different tempo than the audio was recorded.

    Post edited by Hannes on
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    Too_MereToo_Mere Chicago, IL, USABeta Tester, Mentor Posts: 993

    Maybe check Ableton preferences and make sure it’s sending sync to Deluge and not receiving it as well. That may cause issues.

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    HannesHannes GermanyPosts: 83

    no. doesn't solve it. I think by clicking either LINK or EXT in Ableton you set it to either listen to clock or sending clock. can't be both at the same time I think. but also when I disable Deluge as Sync Input in prefs, it doesn't solve it.

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    HannesHannes GermanyPosts: 83
    edited December 2021

    I mean, I could live with Deluge being Master but actually I want to know what's wrong here...
    also: it's not a problem of MIDI sync delay settings in Ableton. midi clock sync delay is set to zero and both metronome are perfectly aligned.

    by the way (sorry, off-topic): doesn't Deluge send song position pointer? When Deluge is Master, Ableton timeline just runs through and through while Deluge is cycling back after 8 bars. Shouldn't Ableton also jump back to bar 1 ?

    Post edited by Hannes on
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    Too_MereToo_Mere Chicago, IL, USABeta Tester, Mentor Posts: 993

    LINK is only used for syncing over Wi-Fi.
    Clearly something is amiss, just not sure what. Other thing is to maybe double check clock settings on the Deluge.

    Song position is only applicable in arranger view. Song mode is like Ableton session view. No position pointer in those cases.

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    HannesHannes GermanyPosts: 83
    edited December 2021

    ah ok I thought LINK is to sync external MIDI gear.
    However. I noticed the following:
    Deluge is Slave. Hit Play in Ableton. Deluge starts playing and audio is smashed. I then SHIFT+MUTE on the Deluges audio track and right after that, do so again (i.e. instant muting and unmuting again of the audio track). and voila: after unmuting the audio track again, the audio is fine! :o

    Post edited by Hannes on
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    Too_MereToo_Mere Chicago, IL, USABeta Tester, Mentor Posts: 993

    That’s so weird! I tried replicating on my end and I’m not getting any artifacts. Wish I could tell what the difference is. Glad you have a workaround to get it to play without artifacts though.

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    HannesHannes GermanyPosts: 83
    edited December 2021

    weird as f*** ! but actually even though its a workaround, that's no alternative. I mean just imagine you'd have several audio tracks and would have to do that on every single one. simply not possible/applicable/whatever.

    So Deluge is Master now. right were it belongs I guess.

    I will try again tomorrow with an other audio source just to be sure that it hasn't to do something with that. I'll let you know...
    thanks so far

    Post edited by Hannes on
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    HannesHannes GermanyPosts: 83
    edited December 2021

    UPDATE: just recorded a little guitar line as audio track into the deluge. tempo set at 94. Ableton set to 94. Ableton Master, Deluge Slave. it's all the same :( audio is smashed until I mute/unmute it.
    Also doesn't matter which of both is Master or Slave when doing the recording. Situation is the same. It's very frustrating. It just seems like the initial clock jitter (don't know how to call it properly - the thing when two devices are synced and BPMs are different for first few moments after initial clock message) causes the audio to be affected and as soon as it is muted and unmuted, it's in time again. but actually that makes no sense technically I guess.

    I also tried to change quantization settings on Deluge (off vs. 16th). don't know if it affects audio tracks at all (?) but at least has no impact on the problem.

    So I am out of ideas completely.
    Do you think this is a problem I should report to Synthstrom? I mean, how high is the chance that someone could help with that?

    Post edited by Hannes on
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    Too_MereToo_Mere Chicago, IL, USABeta Tester, Mentor Posts: 993

    Yeah idk. Can’t quite replicate on my end so I don’t think it’s a bug. Make sure you’re on the latest release 3.1.5. I’m also curious if you’d get same results on the new beta.

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    xiscoxisco spainPosts: 1

    hannes could you solve it ? I have same problem with audio recording when novation slmk3 is master over the deluge , if I disconnect novation works fine... if not audio gets artifacts as was mention before.

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