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Sequencing TR-8S from Deluge

2
BolganiBolgani SuomiPosts: 36

Copying this also here from FB for future reference:

I intend to use Deluge to sequence TR-8S. Why? Hands-on control, better effects, drum synth engine and separate drum outputs from TR-8S + longer patterns and easier editing from Deluge. Best of both worlds really, especially since TR-8S' nice variations are not midi controllable. And of course I can still use Deluge kits or just run a synced pattern from TR-8S, depends on what I'm doing. And I think TR-8S has a little more UUMMPPH to it sonically, but maybe that's my imagination. This is how I did my current setup (will change if better workflow is found):

1) I organized the TR-8S' note numbers to start from 60 (Deluge's C3) and in the same order as in the machine, first normal sounds and then another set of alt numbers

2) Deluge is sending clock, TR-8S receives.

3) The pattern + automation in TR-8S are usually empty.

4) Did a midi kit with the rows in same order as in TR-8S (BD, SD, etc.) and note numbers + midi channel corresponding to TR-8S settings. This is where the drum sequencing happens. I get nice different color drum rows instead of all the same color with midi clip.

5) Did some kits in Deluge with the same order or general drum sounds as with my TR-8S midi clip for easily working standalone without TR-8S if needed. I can just change the kit. If I did the sequencing directly on the midi clip, changing to kit sometimes messes up the order of rows, even with scale turned off. Why? No idea.

6) Added a separate empty midi clip just for program number (Program Change message) and automation (CC messages) since I couldn't figure out how to add those in midi kit. This actually separates the sequencing and actual kit played, hmm, very Octatrack (pattern/parts) 🙂 .

7) Aaaand that's it. Seems to work ok, though generates one additional row in Song view.

Note: TR-8S has two midi channel settings: Pattern CH and Kit CH. Program change message sent to Pattern CH changes the pattern and if it is sent to Kit CH it changes the kit. If the channels are the same program change message changes BOTH the pattern and the kit, which created some confusion and cursing before I figured it out. This isn't even mentioned in the midi implementation chart and I first assumed that Kit CH is the channel for CC messages. But they are transmitted in Pattern CH. 🙄 Why? Dunno. Go home, TR-8S, you're drunk.

Post edited by Bolgani on

Comments

  • 0
    djAziddjAzid AmsterdamPosts: 105

    2) I normally turn the tr8s clock off when 'just' sending notes.

    And I think TR-8S has a little more UUMMPPH to it sonically,

    Yes, the tr8s has some more things, like a compressor, which I normally like the use pretty hard on the kick.
    You can use something similar, but then you have to use 2 or more kick samples with some saturation on it.

  • 1
    kilroykilroy CanadaBeta Tester Posts: 25

    They're a great combo! Sounds similar to how I have mine set up, although I didn't bother re-organizing the note numbers in the TR-8S. The nice thing about keeping them the same is that they are based roughly on standard midi percussion note mappings, so if you plug in a different drum machine, the basics like bass drum, snare, etc. will all just work.

    Like you, I went the drum kit with midi mapping route instead of using a midi tone clip.

    I also created a few Deluge kits that mirror my TR8 kits with the instruments in the TR8 order. That lets me switch a song easily from "online" mode to "offline" mode when I want to work on the Deluge on the couch. I just switch "TR8S-Midi" -> "TR8S-808" (with local deluge samples) or whatever.

  • 1
    JimantronicJimantronic United KingdomBeta Tester Posts: 14

    @kilroy said:
    They're a great combo! Sounds similar to how I have mine set up, although I didn't bother re-organizing the note numbers in the TR-8S. The nice thing about keeping them the same is that they are based roughly on standard midi percussion note mappings, so if you plug in a different drum machine, the basics like bass drum, snare, etc. will all just work.

    Like you, I went the drum kit with midi mapping route instead of using a midi tone clip.

    I also created a few Deluge kits that mirror my TR8 kits with the instruments in the TR8 order. That lets me switch a song easily from "online" mode to "offline" mode when I want to work on the Deluge on the couch. I just switch "TR8S-Midi" -> "TR8S-808" (with local deluge samples) or whatever.

    Cool :) I had a TR-8S but I felt it was MASSIVE and I only used a handful of the drum channels on it, so I've just swapped it for the comparatively teeny and battery powered TR-6S :) which should sound exactly the same and still gives a fader for each of the 6 drums even if the modulation knobs are shared.
    Making a kit with midi mappings and keeping the standard drum kit midi notes sounds like a very good plan. As does having offline sampled versions of the kits saved on the Deluge. I feel that's one of the strengths of the Deluge - being able to bolt on all this extra capability when in a full studio, but still able to go roving and run a cut down version for jams out in the world.

  • 0
    AcheAche GermanyPosts: 2
    edited November 2021

    Very nice! I just recently set up my tr8s and deluge in a similar way like you.
    I like working with the tr8s sequencer quite a bit, but I was disappointed when I tried to add some triplets into a straight 4/4 pattern. It seems like you can't do that in the tr8s. No prob for the Deluge of course.
    The CC message thing is a bit annoying... not being able to send CC from MIDI kits I mean.
    Thanks for the note about pattern CH vs kit CH. I will keep that in mind as I further elaborate my workflow.
    I am looking forward to slowly getting out of the frustration into the creation phase... hahaha.
    Cheers!

    Post edited by Ache on
  • 0
    fabulousfabulous ZürichPosts: 2

    Same here. Been doing this for a while now and am really happy how it works too. I do most of the automation on the TR8S though. The best part to me is that the you get to play the TR8S "unquantized".

    What I dont like is that the mute buttons of the TR don't work this way, they only mute the internal sequencer. Tried to map them to the 'row mutes' of the deluge but as it seems the TR doesn't send any midi info from this button. Does anybody have a solution for this?

  • 0
    trifftriff Liverpool, UKBeta Tester Posts: 5

    Awesome, between this and a Reddit post I’ve finally got the Deluge and TR-8S playing nice, or at least a lot nicer than they were. What mode do you have the TR in and what are the most important settings in its Utility menu? Literally haven’t turned it on in about a year so I’m a bit foggy on that side of things.

  • 0
    BoricuaBoricua Chattanooga, TennesseePosts: 10

    Hi there! Just recently got myself a Deluge, and now the TR-8s. Still going through both learning curves. This thread is certainly going to help on the best way to configure these 2 devices. I was wondering how folks are routing the audio (TR-8S to Deluge, Deluge to TR-8S, and/or, both independently to a mixer. Any inputs would be appreciated! Thanks!

  • 0
    BoricuaBoricua Chattanooga, TennesseePosts: 10

    @triff said:
    Awesome, between this and a Reddit post I’ve finally got the Deluge and TR-8S playing nice, or at least a lot nicer than they were..

    I checked a couple of Reddit posts, yet, none that went into much detail. Do you by any chance recall the thread? Thanks!

  • 0
    trifftriff Liverpool, UKBeta Tester Posts: 5

    I don't sorry - what part are you having trouble with? The main part I was stuck on was having a TR8S kit mapped in the Deluge, I remember there were a few specific settings in the UTILITY menu too.

  • 0
    djAziddjAzid AmsterdamPosts: 105

    In the utility menu, turn autosync to on and rxstartstop to off.

  • 0
    BoricuaBoricua Chattanooga, TennesseePosts: 10

    @triff said:
    I don't sorry - what part are you having trouble with? The main part I was stuck on was having a TR8S kit mapped in the Deluge, I remember there were a few specific settings in the UTILITY menu too.

    Yes, same issue for me. Will check into the Utility Menu. Thanks!

  • 0
    BoricuaBoricua Chattanooga, TennesseePosts: 10

    @djAzid said:
    In the utility menu, turn autosync to on and rxstartstop to off.

    Thank you very much, will check this out.

  • 0
    Bl22kBl22k UKPosts: 1

    Hi gang, I am indeed a bit of an outsider as I don't own a Deluge..

    I have found this thread online while searching for a simple question regarding sequencing a TR8S with an external sequencer.

    I only have one direct and simple question from my side and I would be really grateful for your guys help:

    How to write patterns on with a external sequencer (like Deluge or Torso T1) for the 11 different channels on the TR8S?

    The idea is to use TR8S only as a sound source and not the sequencer.

    Many thanks in advance!!

    Best,
    Bl22k

  • 0
    BolganiBolgani SuomiPosts: 36

    @Bl22k said:
    Hi gang, I am indeed a bit of an outsider as I don't own a Deluge..

    I have found this thread online while searching for a simple question regarding sequencing a TR8S with an external sequencer.

    I only have one direct and simple question from my side and I would be really grateful for your guys help:

    How to write patterns on with a external sequencer (like Deluge or Torso T1) for the 11 different channels on the TR8S?

    The idea is to use TR8S only as a sound source and not the sequencer.

    Many thanks in advance!!

    Best,
    Bl22k

    Simple really. TR-8S receives note values (for example BD is 36 = C1, check the midi implementation chart) in the midi channel set by Utility/Midi-setting "Pattern Ch", and these trigger sounds accordingly. So you just plug in your sequencer to Midi IN, set the channel in both ends to be the same and then program the beat using the correct notes, press play (TR-8S' Utility\Sync setting TempoSync should be set to MIDI) and tadaa beats. :-)

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