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Deluge Midi Messages

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bppbpp canadaPosts: 8
edited March 2021 in Deluge Help

I wanted to use Deluge (firmware 3.1.5) to midi control my modular system. However, I am running into issues sending my system into panic. I can use the same midi cables and connections and sequences from my Key Step Pro and my SL MKIII with no issues. When I monitor the midi messages, there is a significant difference between what Deluge sends and what my other (stable) sequences send.

Given a sequence of 16th notes at 120 bpm on two channels (11 & 12), KSP will send:

`07:25:07.193 From Port 1 Note On 11 C2 100
07:25:07.194 From Port 1 Note On 12 C2 100
07:25:07.213 From Port 1 Clock
07:25:07.234 From Port 1 Clock
07:25:07.255 From Port 1 Clock
07:25:07.256 From Port 1 Note Off 11 C2 0
07:25:07.257 From Port 1 Note Off 12 C2 0
07:25:07.276 From Port 1 Clock
07:25:07.296 From Port 1 Clock
07:25:07.317 From Port 1 Clock
07:25:07.318 From Port 1 Note On 11 E2 100
07:25:07.319 From Port 1 Note On 12 E2 100
07:25:07.338 From Port 1 Clock
07:25:07.359 From Port 1 Clock
07:25:07.380 From Port 1 Clock
07:25:07.381 From Port 1 Note Off 11 E2 0
07:25:07.382 From Port 1 Note Off 12 E2 0

`

Same sequence/bpm/channels (1 octave higher) from Deluge:

`07:41:56.658 From Port 1 Note Off 12 E3 64
07:41:56.659 From Port 1 Note On 12 C3 100
07:41:56.660 From Port 1 Note Off 11 E3 64
07:41:56.661 From Port 1 Note On 11 C3 100
07:41:56.661 From Port 1 Clock
07:41:56.678 From Port 1 Clock
07:41:56.699 From Port 1 Clock
07:41:56.720 From Port 1 Clock
07:41:56.741 From Port 1 Clock
07:41:56.761 From Port 1 Clock
07:41:56.783 From Port 1 Note Off 12 C3 64
07:41:56.784 From Port 1 Note On 12 E3 100
07:41:56.785 From Port 1 Note Off 11 C3 64
07:41:56.786 From Port 1 Note On 11 E3 100
07:41:56.786 From Port 1 Clock
07:41:56.803 From Port 1 Clock
07:41:56.824 From Port 1 Clock
07:41:56.845 From Port 1 Clock
07:41:56.866 From Port 1 Clock
07:41:56.886 From Port 1 Clock
07:41:56.908 From Port 1 Note Off 12 E3 64
07:41:56.909 From Port 1 Note On 12 G3 100
07:41:56.910 From Port 1 Note Off 11 E3 64
07:41:56.911 From Port 1 Note On 11 G3 100

`

There are a lot more clock messages (doesn't seem affected by PPQN setting), the note Off is 64 and the previous Note OFF and current Note On are sent almost simultaneously.

Is there anyway I can change these settings or behaviour?

I can get maybe 4 bars if I am lucky before my components get into panic (multiple midi/cv converters - Mother 32, Pittsburgh Modular SV-1b, Hexinverter Mutant Brain), so Deluge is unusable as a modular sequencer. Both the KSP and SL MKIII can sequence and run for long periods of time without hiccups.

Again firmware 3.1.5. Is there a way to set Note Off value, is there a way to reduce the number of clock messages, is there a way to space out note on/off messages?

Thanks.

Just a quick follow up. Same sequence/bpm sent from SLMKIII, modular system is completely stable getting these messages... The only difference between this and Deluge is Note Off is 0. Which leads me to the conclusion that it my sequencing instability with Deluge is not related to the number of clock messages, nor to the order and space between note off/on, but to the value of the note off messages. So I guess I am looking for a way to set Note Off = 0 in Deluge

`08:45:32.204 From Port 1 Note On 11 C2 96
08:45:32.205 From Port 1 Note On 12 C2 96
08:45:32.222 From Port 1 Clock
08:45:32.243 From Port 1 Clock
08:45:32.264 From Port 1 Clock
08:45:32.285 From Port 1 Clock
08:45:32.306 From Port 1 Clock
08:45:32.326 From Port 1 Clock
08:45:32.327 From Port 1 Note Off 11 C2 0
08:45:32.328 From Port 1 Note Off 12 C2 0
08:45:32.329 From Port 1 Note On 11 E2 96
08:45:32.330 From Port 1 Note On 12 E2 96
08:45:32.347 From Port 1 Clock
08:45:32.368 From Port 1 Clock
08:45:32.389 From Port 1 Clock
08:45:32.410 From Port 1 Clock
08:45:32.431 From Port 1 Clock
08:45:32.451 From Port 1 Clock
08:45:32.452 From Port 1 Note Off 11 E2 0
08:45:32.453 From Port 1 Note Off 12 E2 0
08:45:32.454 From Port 1 Note On 11 G2 96
08:45:32.455 From Port 1 Note On 12 G2 96

`

Post edited by bpp on
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Comments

  • 0
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 1,017
    edited March 2021

    Hey :) This seems very specific and in-depth, so I'll link @rohan (the developer) here to provide some input

    Post edited by Icoustik on

    ~ Distinguished Delugate ᕕ( ◎_◎)ᕗ

  • 0
    rohanrohan Staff Posts: 590

    Hi bbp,

    That value you refer to (64 or 0) being sent with the note-off messages is the velocity of the note-off. Most hardware does not even interpret, or let you set, this number, and many MIDI users won't even know that the MIDI standard gives the possibility for a note-off to have a velocity. There is no way to change this from 64 on the Deluge, and I'd be surprised if your other gear is paying attention to this number.

    I'm not sure why your modular gear would be responding differently to the MIDI from the SLMKIII vs the Deluge, which looks equivalent enough as far as I can tell.

  • 0
    bppbpp canadaPosts: 8

    thanks for looking into it.
    it's very consistent that the deluge trips up the modular (particularly Pittsburgh Modular SV-1b) and mother-32. The only difference I can see between SLMKIII and Deluge is the note off value. My guess is that it trips up midi to CV conversion, but will have to wait until I hear back from Pittsburgh Modular.

    I am waiting on a midi event processor, and when that gets in I will try again but have the event processor map the value for note offs to 0 and see if that works. Either way, I will post back.

    Cheers.

  • 0
    hexagon5unhexagon5un MunichBeta Tester Posts: 121

    It's interesting to note that sending default velocity 64 with note offs is the MIDI standard: http://midi.teragonaudio.com/tech/midispec/noteoff.htm

    Aside: I had no idea that this was in the spec to allow for velocity-sensitivity on release. That's an awesome idea. Why haven't I seen a single piece of gear that implements it? Even though the hardware is already there to do it? (Shrug.) Release sensitivity would be cool.

  • 0
    Affectionate_Bee_781Affectionate_Bee_781 United StatesBeta Tester Posts: 112

    @hexagon5un I think some Roli keyboards send release velocity. Synths such as the Hydrasynth can process it. Pretty sure the Osmose will have release velocity as well. The future is now :)

  • 0
    bppbpp canadaPosts: 8

    Just a quick update here, I put in a Midi Solutions Event Processor that alters the Note Off w/velocity 64 to Note Off w/velocity 0 and everything is stable. Thanks everyone for their input.

    Mother 32, Subharmonicon, SV-1b and all the modules run through Mutant Brain can run through the sequences without tripping up.

    Not sure if I should file a feature request to have a selectable Note Off velocity?

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