Song Editor and MPE support (Roli, Linnstrument, etc.)
Ke10g
BerlinBeta Tester Posts: 26
Dear Jamie and fellow Downrushers,
I've been toying with MPE (MIDI polyphonic expression) control of the deluge. The Deluge is capable of MPE, it just is very tedious to implement. I'm wondering if you, or anyone else listening, might be able to help. I'm not much of a programmer and I feel it would be fairly straight forward to streamline the process with an XML editor. Given that there are very few hardware MPE synths out there, there is a great incentive to get this going. The basic idea for using the current Deluge as an MPE synth is that you use each track as a synth voice. So you basically have the same synth preset copied onto as many tracks as voices you want, and map each track to a different midi channel. It would be great to have an editor for this, as it is REALLY tedious to set up. Ideally, I think, it should be added as an extra feature of Downrush in the form of an enhanced song editor.
Here is my process for doing MPE with Deluge (I use a couple Roli Seabord Blocks as MPE controllers, so the CCs mentioned here correspond to those, but the process would be similar with different instruments):
-make a synth sound you like
-map aftertouch to some parameter
-copy the preset to as many tracks as voices you want
-on each track, learn the midi note channel for that voice (for 8 voices I use channels 2-9)
-on each track, learn the 'Y' (vertical slide) parameter (cc 74 for each channel, by default on seaboard)
--- the other "dimensions" of the 5D controller are "automatically" mapped: pitch bend and aftertouch and note-number-to-pitch.
--- you can then do global modifications of your synth patch for all voices by modulating the knobs on the song level.
------I use Max MSP to "learn" the midi in channels and the cc74 Y parameter to each of the tracks... in any case you need a device that allows you to send a single message precisely to the Deluge.
I've toyed with modifying the song XML directly to do this, but it is still a major pain.
I'm thinking of an interface similar to Douwnrush kit editor for Songs that allows you to:
-select an existing preset and apply it to different tracks
-assign midi in channel number to those tracks
-map aftertouch, velocity, and cc74 to the parameters to each of those tracks/synths
---One issue is that while aftertouch, pitch bend, and note number, is handled by Deluge at the "track" level, CCs are handled at the "sound" level, in the Deluge file format.
A more sophisticated MPE-oriented version of this might allow you to select the number of voices you want, choose a midi start channel, and select your "patch cable" connections (mappings), and the program would automatically create a Song with the appropriately configured tracks for use as an MPE synth.
What do you think?
Thanks for your time!
Comments
I would love the Deluge to support MPE and my Linnstrument. Your solution looks too complicated for me. Maybe Synthrom will add it in a future update.
That would be best. My solution currently is too complicated, definitely. The xml editor based on something like downrush would be a good work around, but ideally, this should be implemented in the deluge itself. Totally agree.
I’m also very much into MPE; have a couple of controllers capable and in need for more MPE sound sources, sure I would love an implementation allowing Deluge to support MPE.
Ok! Looks like mpe is coming in firmware 3.0!
where is that mentioned?
Looks like I was wrong. They already added X and Y modulation points on the new panels, which I read somewhere is in provision of an eventual native MPE implementation, but it looks like that will be for a future update.
Yes it seems to be one of the "coming soon" features
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FAeJ5f1sl3kKJgvbKmGRe3PIMjkaYrh3eAXF05PAV6k/edit#heading=h.ptlvs8o0a8j6
X and Y (coming soon) - MIDI MPE support will be added in a future Deluge firmware update. These modulation sources refer to the horizontal and vertical sideways pressure which a user of an MPE-compatible MIDI controller may apply to each key with the finger pressing it.I hope when implementing MPE the MIDI implementation will be done together with
1. a finally full implementation of Midi
2. finalize the half implemented Midi 1.0 standard
3. the rework of global and local Midi definition clutter
4. the removal of the weird 50 step options in favor of 127 steps ... or
5. maybe Midi 2.0 ? https://www.midi.org/articles-old/details-about-midi-2-0-midi-ci-profiles-and-property-exchange
Odo Sendaidokai from Berlin
Yes please, MPE support!
I'm liminally involved in the "MIDI 2.0" development and in it's current state IF the Deluge implemented it it would only be available over the USB in it's current state
Let's just get the full 1.0 and 127 steps happening
The isomorphic layout of the Deluge inspired me to pick up a used Linnstrument that's arriving today... I'll be itching to see those X/Y pads become useful! It's pretty great that the Deluge team is planning on adding MPE support (and yes, hopefully streamlined MIDI implementation along the way).
What do you mean with "full 1.0"? If i look at the midi implementation chart in the manual its just PC receive that is missing and MTC. for me finer resolutions (eg. Envelope times) is not tied to Midi, it its Deluge UX (display 127 values instead of 50) and a sound engine thing (e.g. shorter envelopes than possible by now)
really looking forwards to the new X,Y sources. "refer to the horizontal and vertical sideways pressure" i hope it goes further than that. imho the joke of MPE is that you can set automation per note, this has a big impact on the sound engine. so, for "real" MPE the internal Synth engine has to cope with having an engine for each note, so e.g. u can have different cutoff values in overlapping notes.
Just got the Joué MPE Midi Controller (www.play-joue.com/) but for some reason can only play one note /monophonically when it's connected to the Deluge.. Anyone Else have Joué and have success with playing polyphonically? Or do you think it's because MPE is not yet implemented.. My Korg nano key studio works Great!, but no MPE.. Anyways Also very excited for this to be released hopefully sooner than later
Im waiting on this!