Please familiarise yourself with the forum rules & guidelines

Akai Force - finally Ableton in a groovebox?

9
VoltVolt Posts: 53
edited January 20 in General

https://sonicstate.com/news/2019/01/03/new-akai-apc-coming-standalone-clip-launching/
http://cdm.link/2019/01/ableton-apc-live-leak/

Looks very promising! If this becomes real (and good), this finally could be the standalone „Ableton clip launch groovebox/sequencer“ which many users has been waiting for a long time. :) Maybe I would sell my Deluge for it (I expected an Ableton clip launch workflow when I bought the Deluge)?

But we’ll need to wait for NAMM in January...

Post edited by Volt on

Comments

  • 0
    olicolic Posts: 15

    wow this are great news! :smile:

  • 0
    MPrinsenMPrinsen NetherlandsPosts: 125

    I have the same feelings. Would love to see an ableton style clip launching mode to be implemented in the Deluge though. Then I don't need the APC!

  • 0
    cypher79cypher79 UKPosts: 157

    Looks very interesting, but apparently it's running the same software as the MPC Live, and not a version of Ableton.

  • 0
    KegeratorzKegeratorz PAPosts: 13

    Excuse my ignorance but couldn’t you just add clips to a kit and trigger them. Have very limited use with Ableton so I'm probably not getting it.

  • 0
    VoltVolt Posts: 53
    edited January 11

    @MPrinsen said:
    I have the same feelings. Would love to see an ableton style clip launching mode to be implemented in the Deluge though. Then I don't need the APC!

    Yes, of course I would love to see that in the Deluge, too. Would be a game changer to be able to really jam with clips (variations). Then there is no need for the APC anymore. But I don’t believe that this will happen, because then the internal structure needs to work completely different. Currently each clip needs a new row (track) and there is a lot of confusion with tracks which sharing the same preset: http://forums.synthstrom.com/discussion/921/cloned-track-with-same-synth#latest - the advantage of Ableton is that it has fixed tracks (each clip stays in it‘s row) and the clips behave constantly to their track, which is pretty standard. And Deluge‘s „tracks“ are horizontally, not vertically.

    @cypher79 said:
    Looks very interesting, but apparently it's running the same software as the MPC Live, and not a version of Ableton.

    I owned the MPC Live, the software is pretty complex and cool. The reason I sold it was the very horrible and confusing handling. This seems to be changed completely in the APC Live. You will have a real step sequencer with 32 steps viewable (Deluge „just“ has 16), a real clip launching mode, many buttons for switching rapidly to different modes (screens), 8 encorder (each has it’s own display to show the current function directly above them!) and much more. I have a lot of hopes that the APC could feel like a completely different beast than the MPC Live.

    @Kegeratorz said:
    Excuse my ignorance but couldn’t you just add clips to a kit and trigger them. Have very limited use with Ableton so I'm probably not getting it.

    Not sure if I understood your question. In the Deluge you can „jam“ with just 8 clips per time. With an Ableton style clip launcher this could be 128 clips per time! And if the tracks would be vertically (not horizontally) you could control 16 tracks oer time. Totally different thing if you want to play „live“ (on stage, jam at home or with your band). This opens up a completely whole control over your song.

    Post edited by Volt on
  • 0
    amiga909amiga909 SwitzerlandPosts: 688

    @Volt said:

    Not sure if I understood your question. In the Deluge you can „jam“ with just 8 clips per time. With an Ableton style clip launcher this could be 128 clips per time! And if the tracks would be vertically (not horizontally) you could control 16 tracks oer time. Totally different thing if you want to play „live“ (on stage, jam at home or with your band). This opens up a completely whole control over your song.

    just to add, you can do this with an external midi controller already (midi learn launch/mute buttons.

  • 0
    VoltVolt Posts: 53

    Yeah I know that we can use MIDI controllers, of course. But this never could be the same intuitive handling. One reason: Deluge has no LED feedback, so „controlling“ all tracks and all clips would be like flying blind. You never know what’s currently going on, what will come next... and also you can’t manipulate the clips with a controller. A completely dark controller is no option for playing in live situations.

  • 0
    bloombloom earthPosts: 11

    oh dreams come true maybe. seem to me that akai recently know the dreams of many people. makes me sad because deluge has many many buttons. would be the perfect machine for this but song mode is so unusable for free launching. clones are confusing and no overview.

    seems korg will release something portable too (electribe 3?). glory times. possible that i switch too but first wait what happens.

  • 0
    olicolic Posts: 15

    Force blurs the lines between contemporary music production solutions and the latest technologies available for DJ performance, a first among the industry standards. By merging clip triggering, step-sequencing, sampling, but also in-house synthesis engines, not to mention the latest-generation touchscreen, all in one stand-alone performance equipment, the Force combines the essential features to offer ultra-intuitive ergonomics and allow you to give free rein to your creativity.

    Force embeds a matrix of 8x8 trigger pads with RGB backlight, a 7-inch color touch screen, 8 touch-sensitive potentiometers with individual graphic OLed display, 2 audio inputs, 4 audio outputs, not to mention the MIDI and CV Gate connectivity . All this end to end leaves the user unprecedented creative freedom, since it even goes to emancipate a complementary computer.

    The very essence of Force consists of a workflow focused on the use of the clips, which are at the origin of your creative performances. Choose multiple modes such as plugins, MPC-style drum tracks, but also audio tracks, Keygroups, MIDI tracks, and CV tracks to set your clip type, then customize them with step sequencer and performance pads , and add notes via the edit window or the smart-scales, chords or progressions modes.

    In addition, Force has advanced real-time timestrech capabilities and pitch modulation with quality equivalent to current music production software, effects plug-in from AIR Music Technology collections, and TubeSynth synthesis engines. , Bassline and Electric. Another synth, Hype, extends this list, a synth based on presets and macros accumulating several synthesis engines in one plugin, easy to use. Force can also record up to 8 stereo audio tracks.

    Force includes more than 10GB of embedded sounds, from the most famous collections of premium content like SampleTools by CR2, MSX Audio and Sample Magic. With 248 kits, 16 demo projects, more than 2,500 loops and 500 designs, the Force library opens the doors to the best sounds for your creativity.

    As of March 2019, Force will also include deep integration with Ableton Live in controller mode. This feature will include visibility and full control over the Ableton clip array, touch control of mix parameters including crossfader assignment, and control of Force settings on the Ableton Live workspace, via the screen. Touch and Force Q-Link knobs.

    In addition, March 2019 will also mark the integration of Splice into Force. Splice Sounds powers the creativity of producers around the world with access to millions of high-quality, royalty-free samples, sounds, presets and loops, covering almost every genre of music. With the integration of Splice, Force users will have immediate Wi-Fi access to their own Splice library directly from the touch user interface - perfect for ultra-fast auditioning of sounds to be integrated into their project.

    • Standalone - no computer needed

    • Matrix of 8x8 RGB pads for triggering clips

    • 7-inch multi-touch screen

    • 1 push encoder wheel for navigation and selection

    • 1 crossfader A / B

    • 2 combo inputs Xlr / Mic Jack / instruments / line

    • 4 TRS outputs

    • MIDI In / Out / Thru minijack (minijack to 5-pin adapters included)

    • 4 configurable CV / Gate outputs

    • Remix, merge and produce with 6 different programs for complete audio / MIDI / CV sequencing

    • Performance modes including drum MPC, notes, smart note suite, chords and chord progression

    • MPC Sample Editor

    • Automatic detection of BPM, real-time time stretching and pitch modulation

    • 8 Q-Link touch-sensitive potentiometers with individual graphic Oled display

    • 4 powerful and fully customizable synthesis engines

    • 16 GB of internal memory (including more than 10 GB of sounds included)

    • SD card slot and 2 USB 3.0 ports compatible with USB storage devices or MIDI controllers

    • 2.5 "SATA connector internally (SSD or HDD) for an extension of the internal storage by the user

    • 1 Type-B USB port for connecting to a Mac / PC computer

    • 1 TRS headphone output

    • Weight and dimensions: 3.87 kg, 350 x 389 x 72.5 mm

  • 4
    cypher79cypher79 UKPosts: 157

    Looks awesome, but is not battery powered and it's going to cost £1500! No thanks, I'm sticking with my trusty Deluge :)

  • 0
    artsunartsun Marseille, FrancePosts: 21

    @cypher79 said:
    Looks awesome, but is not battery powered and it's going to cost £1500! No thanks, I'm sticking with my trusty Deluge :)

    Same thought here :) And it looks biiiiig. too much.

  • 1
    3lektronika3lektronika germanyPosts: 6

    Big problem with akai live was..that only 256 mb can be used in a full projekt..thats sucks.! nobody is telling you about this amazing lie..you got 16 gb on board..can install harddrive with 1 TB..but,can use only 256 mb in a projekt:))
    i think the same will be with akai live/force.!

  • 1
    3lektronika3lektronika germanyPosts: 6

    by the way..akai's midi in/out sync sucks.! so if you got sum hardware..you will not able to sync.
    when you are in midi in sync mode..you losing futures like audio recording.
    midi out is to bad..!!
    but,Nobody is telling you about this bugs:))!!
    support,.i was waiting 2 weeks for one simple question.!!!
    so,Be happy that you are owner of deluge..

  • 0
    HollexHollex FrPosts: 5

    Amazing product! In compare the Deluge seems like the little brother of the Force. The interface is really clear and intuitive. And it has session view (am I dreaming?)! It’s so sad that the Deluge has such a non-intuitive song mode. :( I really hope that this will change soon. A 16 tracks clip launch view would fit the Delige so unbelievable well.

    The workflow of Force seems also very consistent and clear, here is a video: https://force.akaipro.com/#product.info.description - unfortunately probably no batteries but the size is OK. 3leltronika, it’s not true that the MIDI out clock is not rock solid. Actually it is very good. The problem appears if the MPC is receiving the clock as slave, but not as master! SD card sample streaming is coming soon, too. And the email support of Synthstrom is not that better than the Akai support.

    But OK, this is naturally a fan forum - the rest of the “world“ seems to be very exited about the Force announcement, reasonable. I also love my Deluge, but now it’s getting a really big rivial - not in terms of mobility but for the wohle rest. The price for this beast (just look at all the components) is also very good, maybe 1299€ streetprice? I can imagine that NI Machine and Ableton Push also will follow with a stand-alone solution soon. Hoping for the Deluge that its childhood ailments will be fixed until then.

  • 0
    klangweberklangweber GermanyPosts: 3

    Looks interesting…. but it´s Akai...I anticipate a lot of bugs, no SD card streaming and so on...
    Before I bought the deluge the MPC was more interesting for me until I read all those forum Posts. After their last Firmware update, they fixed a lot of stuff but ...again... no sd card streaming and no sidechaining :/
    A few years ago I had an MPC 5000 and had a lot of fun for many month, but in the end I had also a lot of problems with freezings, long loading times etc. and sold it finally.
    If they really could make their promises happen it would be great. But for now I´m happy with my little Deluge which can do so much, and every time I´m going deeper I find more stunning features :)

  • 0
    VondragonnogginVondragonnoggin California, USAPosts: 189

    I bought the Deluge after waiting a very long time for Akai to fix the MPC X and Live standalones and refused to sell my mv8800’s which still do more than the standalone new MPC’s. Not gonna put my faith in Akai on this one. I like the Deluge. It has got the updates people are requesting. It has support 10x that of Akai. It has a customer satisfaction out of both product and support better than Akai’s new mpc’s. I’ll stick with the clear winner instead of putting my hopes into the Akai (Nukai) basket. Old school MPC 2000, 2000XL, 3000, 60, and even the 4000 were great machines. I ran Ableton Live for ten years straight before going back to hardware and using MV8800’s and Deluge. Akai was supposed to do clip launching and full features in their Live and X and still don’t get that right. My mv8800 has clip launching that works great and it’s from 2007.

  • 1
    VoltVolt Posts: 53

    Yeah, unfortunately it’s Akai, not the most trustful company in terms of cultivating their software. ;) On the other hand I’ve got the feeling that Akai finally woke up and changed many things. Since the release of MPC Live (1,5 years ago) there has been already 3 very powerful updates released and it looks lik Akai now really listening to their costumers. The fourth update (2.4) will come shortly, including streaming from SD, song mode, import(!!) of Ableton Live files and so on. And the hardware design of the Force seems to be very well thought-out! And I don’t care about the touchscreen (I don’t need that), but there so many dedicated buttons (Deluge has many combinations) and assignable encoders each with its own display are very great... but most important for me is clip launching! For my kind of working the Deluge is not an instrument for live performances.

    But I will wait until feedbacks from users are coming which are owning the device for a longer period.

  • 1
    JLBorgesJLBorges ArgentinaPosts: 5

    I think Akai takes too literally the "Ableton in a box".

  • 0
    funkymothersfunkymothers LondonPosts: 29

    Like most people here, I love my Deluge and Synthstrom. I have been toying with the idea to add an MPC to my set up as I really like some MPC-features. However, even though things are beginning to point in the right direction it seems that the priorities of the MPC development are features as opposed to reliability and stability. I find it baffling that AKAI announce bringing down MIDI jitter to 5.5 ms when slaved to external clock as though it is an amazing breakthrough. It may be when that figure represents a reduction of MIDI jitter by a factor of more than 100% (previously it was something like 12.5 ms) - but that does not make it any more acceptable, especially considering previous MPCs' values which were lower by a factor of 100 (Source).

    Let's see if Disk Streaming will indeed get implemented and work as expected. I hope AKAI will be able to deliver as I could see an MPC working very well alongside a Deluge. But looking at the way Rohan has been able to optimise the Deluge's FW to make better use of available HW I fear AKAI are sitting on too complex a code base and will never be able (or be interested in) to deliver basic performance on par with their machines of the past.

    Of course this may not be a problem for some people who never intend to run their AKAI machines as slaves. Equally it may be that some users are not sensitive to such timing irregularities in which case my point is irrelevant to them. But personally I would always favour the approach of having a solid core foundation before adding features.

  • 2
    KegeratorzKegeratorz PAPosts: 13

    Meh, no gold knobs

  • 0
    71777177 (:Posts: 32

    I saw the NAMM demos and despite the truely awesome array of features, it somehow left me cold. shrug

  • 0
    VJFranzKVJFranzK Los Angeles USAPosts: 108

    Trade a laptop for something with a small screen that doesn't fold upward? ; - )
    Yes, it'll be good, how good will be revealed in the playing of it.
    If it were still portable I'd be more interested.

    Force is basically a DAWless DAW, the Deluge is a sequencer / synth, a bit different.

    But it does have Note Repeat!

    Music, Visuals, Reviews of Synths, Drum Machines, Apps
    YouTube: VJFranzK

Sign In or Register to comment.