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Sustain pedal support.

13

Edit (after Icoustik's feedback I have made this more specific)

1 - If we could learn commands (play, launch/mute etc) to an incoming CC command we could start and stop a song, or launch a part, using just a simple sustain pedal.

I've found that midi pedals (especially 5 pin midi ones) aren't that common, and can be expensive - a sustain pedal on a keyboard is the cheapest, most common way of sending a midi message to the deluge with your foot and leaving your hands free to play keyboard or guitar.

2 - a simple on/off sustain pedal is currently unable to be patched to the 'release' parameters in such a way that they jump to 50 and hold a note the way you would expect when a sustain pedal is connected to a keyboard.

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Old version:

Is it conceivably possible to receive incoming CC messages in future? I think this would be really great -

1 - It would mean you could use a sustain pedal with an external keyboard to make notes longer in the normal way

2 - If you could use a CC message as a 'learn' command, you could stop/start a song or part by hitting the sustain pedal.

Post edited by hernebaynoisecontrol on

Comments

  • 0

    I didn't mean to make that writing so big - I think it's that I hit the hash tag key to number the points...

  • 0
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 1,017

    It DOES receive CC messages :) Play, record, tap tempo and play repeat can be set globally in the settings menu. And you can individually assign incoming CCs with the Learn button, to Launch a track or section, or Mute/unmute tracks in a kit etc.

    Go to the setting you want to control in the Sound editor, or use the dedicated shortcut, then hold Learn and press or move the external button or knob, and it'll be assigned :) CC mappings are currently saved per preset, and midi note mappings are saved per Song.

    ~ Distinguished Delugate ᕕ( ◎_◎)ᕗ

  • 0

    Amazing - I will test this out tonight. Is there something I'm doing wrong then? I've tried to hold Learn and an audition pad and while pressing the sustain pedal and it's never done anything - do I need to change something in settings first?

  • 0

    Hey there lcoustik - tried this but couldn't get it to work - I could be wrong but I think that a cc message won't work for launching a track or play, record etc because it's a command, and only note-on messages can be learned to commands.

  • 0
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 1,017
    edited December 2017

    Nah, it works fine for me :) CC messages work for parameter controls (knob/fader movements, momentary of course) as well as muting tracks either in kits or in song mode + launching sections (button presses).

    Notes work for triggering individual pads in kit mode or playing synth tracks, like a midi keyboard.

    In theory, if you want to f.ex. mute/ unmute a track you need to be in song mode, hold Learn then the mute pad and then press the external button. That works fine for me, both with cc's for controls and notes for playing stuff.
    I've never tried with a sustain pedal tho, I use other midi controllers (Launchpad, Launch control).
    Where exactly are you plugging in the pedal ? :)

    Post edited by Icoustik on

    ~ Distinguished Delugate ᕕ( ◎_◎)ᕗ

  • 0

    Ah man, I spent a lot of time trying this last night and couldn't get it to work. I can get a sustain pedal to have some control over a synth parameter - but no recognition at all on commands like mute/unmute. I have the sustain pedal going into a midi keyboard, and the midi keyboard going into the deluge via 5-pin.

  • 0
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 1,017

    Hmm... Weird! I guess it's the pedal or the connections then.

    ~ Distinguished Delugate ᕕ( ◎_◎)ᕗ

  • 0
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 1,017

    Did you try clicking on it twice? It MIGHT be behaving more like a 'toggle' instead of momentary

    ~ Distinguished Delugate ᕕ( ◎_◎)ᕗ

  • 0
    SamSam WellingtonModerator, Staff Posts: 160

    Hi all!

    @Icoustik : @hernebaynoisecontrol just sent me a message about this and the following is an edited reply that I'm gonna post here for clarity. Hope it helps :smile:

    "So the launch pads and play button work with MIDI note messages but, basically, CC messages wouldn't work being assigned to those buttons. The simplest solution to this is to route the pedal to a track or song's volume and use that like you would use the mute/launch, although there's drawbacks there - you'd have to have the song/track playing first and come in on time. Otherwise, there are things like MIDI pedalboards or repurposing other kinds of controllers or full DIYing a simple, single-MIDI-note foot control - all of those ways could work, depending on what suits you best.

    Also, in order to do piano-like sustain, try routing the CC to the "Sustain" control on the envelopes in the sound editor."

    ***I should also mention that after this reply, it was discovered that the sustain pedal counts up in increments (1, then 2, then 3 etc...), not in the on/off-127/0-switch way I expected, which could be a problem when trying to use the "Sustain" routing and volume control idea that I just mentioned

  • 0

    Yeah sweet - checked patching an on-off sustain pedal to parameters (I think patching to 'release' on both envelopes would be the way) but it doesn't work - hitting the sustain pedal just decreases the level 1 value each time I stamp on the sustain (50, 49, 48 etc).

    So I the feature request stands - though I don't know whether I'm a strange deluge user for trying to use the humble sustain pedal. I think the sustain pedal could be a mighty thing if further supported!

  • 0
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 1,017

    True dat, Sam! My bad, I thought my Launch control's buttons were sending CC's, but I checked my template and they are indeed sending note messages. So hernebaynoisecontrol's request for this is very relevant!

    @hernebaynoisecontrol MIDI Solutions have solutions :) But, most of them are kinda costly tho..

    ~ Distinguished Delugate ᕕ( ◎_◎)ᕗ

  • 0

    Thanks man - yeah that's a good call - MIDI solutions have good stuff, but yes - wish there were some more diverse options for affordable footswitches around.

  • 1
    SamSam WellingtonModerator, Staff Posts: 160

    @Icoustik I just realized I made an embarrassing error! Sorry! @hernebaynoisecontrol is correct about patching to release, not sustain. My bad!

  • 0
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 1,017
    edited December 2017

    What about the Boss FS-5u tho? As far as i know it only sends 0 and 127 (On/off) and they're relatively cheap :)

    It should work for setting the release setting on / off to create a sustain pedal-function

    Post edited by Icoustik on

    ~ Distinguished Delugate ᕕ( ◎_◎)ᕗ

  • 0

    Cool thinking @lcoustik - haven't seen those before. Although in saying that when I attached the sustain to my Arturia Keystep, I used the computer program to set the switch to 0 and 127 on but nothing happened - it still just lowered it by -1 each time. If anyone has tried these with the deluge, I'm keen to hear.

  • 0
    PancitoKill85PancitoKill85 Buenos Aires ArgentinaPosts: 8

    +1 to this
    I use my Deluge to control other gear(also for synth purposes). Specifically,as an intermediary between my Kross keyboard and a Streichfett, and it's not useful if pedal is cut in the middle, and not sent. (If Kross is connected directly to Streichfett, pedal works fine)

  • 0
    AudioroticAudiorotic SeattlePosts: 21

    +1 very much need sustain pedal support

  • 1
    PascalPascal GermanyPosts: 2

    Tried using a sustain pedal with the deluge and it kinda worked. (Probably thanks to 2.0)
    I was using it plugged into the korg kross workstation (another kross user here :smiley:).
    First i recorded midi sent from the kross into a midi track on the deluge which sent midi back to the kross' sound engine. Could record the sustain information but it was kinda messy. In playback it would sometimes not reproduce the sustain correctly. I figured thats because the deluge smoothes the "sustain-automation" like any other recorded parameter.
    It would be handy to be able to disable this smoothing.

    When trying to "learn" the sustain pedal to the release of a deluge synth i got the same problem as hernebaynoisecontrol. Pressing the pedal would decrease the release-value by 1.
    But when it reached 0 it sometimes (!?) Would switch to correct operation and pressing the pedal would then set the value to 50, releasing it would set it to 0.
    I was so far not able to reproduce this consistently, so i have no clue how it was achieved. Confusing...
    Will give an update when i eventually figure it out.

  • 0
    rczrcz NYBeta Tester Posts: 111

    @Pascal said:
    Tried using a sustain pedal with the deluge and it kinda worked. (Probably thanks to 2.0)
    I was using it plugged into the korg kross workstation (another kross user here :smiley:).
    First i recorded midi sent from the kross into a midi track on the deluge which sent midi back to the kross' sound engine. Could record the sustain information but it was kinda messy. In playback it would sometimes not reproduce the sustain correctly. I figured thats because the deluge smoothes the "sustain-automation" like any other recorded parameter.
    It would be handy to be able to disable this smoothing.

    When trying to "learn" the sustain pedal to the release of a deluge synth i got the same problem as hernebaynoisecontrol. Pressing the pedal would decrease the release-value by 1.
    But when it reached 0 it sometimes (!?) Would switch to correct operation and pressing the pedal would then set the value to 50, releasing it would set it to 0.
    I was so far not able to reproduce this consistently, so i have no clue how it was achieved. Confusing...
    Will give an update when i eventually figure it out.

    Have this same issue with an MPK261 and Proline pedal.

  • 0
    chvadchvad Brooklyn, NYBeta Tester Posts: 39

    just a bump. it'd be nice to see this one happen.

    www.controlledbleeding.com | www.chvad.com

  • 0
    rczrcz NYBeta Tester Posts: 111
    edited October 2019

    @rcz said:

    @Pascal said:
    Tried using a sustain pedal with the deluge and it kinda worked. (Probably thanks to 2.0)
    I was using it plugged into the korg kross workstation (another kross user here :smiley:).
    First i recorded midi sent from the kross into a midi track on the deluge which sent midi back to the kross' sound engine. Could record the sustain information but it was kinda messy. In playback it would sometimes not reproduce the sustain correctly. I figured thats because the deluge smoothes the "sustain-automation" like any other recorded parameter.
    It would be handy to be able to disable this smoothing.

    When trying to "learn" the sustain pedal to the release of a deluge synth i got the same problem as hernebaynoisecontrol. Pressing the pedal would decrease the release-value by 1.
    But when it reached 0 it sometimes (!?) Would switch to correct operation and pressing the pedal would then set the value to 50, releasing it would set it to 0.
    I was so far not able to reproduce this consistently, so i have no clue how it was achieved. Confusing...
    Will give an update when i eventually figure it out.

    Have this same issue with an MPK261 and Proline pedal.

    I think I posted this elsewhere but I found the workaround. You need to use edit mode on the mpk to set a pot or fader to cc64 (or whatever the pedal is sending for cc). Learn with the deluge using the pot or fader. Make sure to change the value with the pot or fader first then the deluge will accept the cc values coming from the proline pedal.

    cheers,

    Post edited by rcz on
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