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Moving between internal drums and external drum modules, and Midi drum maps!

19
MyrkMyrk Taunton, UK
edited November 2017 in Deluge Software Suggestions

I can't be alone here in seeing that the Deluge faces MASSIVE problems when sequencing external drum modules, especially when working between portable (internal sounds) and sitting in the studio controlling external modules?

So currently if I write a drum line using internal sounds (lets use kit 10 as an example) it is almost useless to me when I go to an external drum module. The issue is that the note assignments internally are different to my modules. Most drum modules use the GM drum map (see below) but not all use this! Some modules can have drum maps re-assigned internally (TR-626 for instance) but many cannot (TR-8 for instance).

My TR-8 uses this standard GM map, but on the layout of the deluge I have a fair number of spaces (as not every note is used - e.g. toms used on TR-8 are just 43, 47, and 50 - toms 41, 45, and 49 are unused) so the entire drum map is only visible over about 3 full page scrolls rather than all on 1 view. Whilst having the mapping of Hi hat closed at 42 and open at 46 works on keyboard, on the deluge that means there's notes 43, 44, and 45 between the closed and open sound. Moving from internal kit 10 for example to a midi channel drum module means moving every note (I can hold about 5 at a time max, so it can be really tedious work).

Unfortunately this current limitation really means that using the deluge as a scratch track for writing songs on the go is a no go, as drums cannot be simply remapped.

A proposed workaround is the implementation of drum maps, AND note assign on internal drum sounds. These 2 features combined would solve the issue. The drum map is essential for making the layout more convenient in midi mode when using an external drum module. We need to be able to weed out the unused notes, and move the pads to make sense on the deluge unit. This would mean I should be able to move open hi hat (46, or A#1) to be next to closed hi hat (42, F#0) to allow easy and sensible arrangement of the notes for writing. The note assign on internal drums would allow any mapping used on an internal kit to instantly translate to the external drum map. So when I'm on kit 10 and have my beat, I could press midi and select the drum map and have it play the right notes. Flicking back to internal would flick it back to the internal sound, again in the right place. IMO I would personally still push for my other idea of MIDI KIT and MIDI SYNTH so we can save the settings of maps into presets, along with all the other assignments. I remember hearing word about default menu with a velocity setting, but this would be better off stored within the preset, as generally speaking the default velocity I'd use for drums may be 64-100, but on synth I'd use a different velocity mapping - synths and drum modules are totally different in the way the act so the deluge treating both as the same at the moment isn't really working I don't think.

I'd be really curious to hear how others deal with external drum modules mapping, and especially those who also take the deluge out and about and write on the go - how do you write drums on the go yet use them on an external module?

Post edited by Myrk on

Comments

  • 1
    placebo92placebo92 Vancouver BC Canada
    I too am very interested in this. Just spent the last half hour scavenging thru he manual searching for how to rearrange kit tracks in midi, figuring there must be a way. Is a bummer there isn't.. I guess one option would be to record audio from your drum modules into the deluge and arrange your own kits that way. But would be tedious, and not being able to tweak parameters on the go would be a bummer. For now I'll just clock the tempo and use the internal sequencer on my volca beats, probably easier to just emulate any pattern I male from Deluge into the Volca than any other current option.
  • 1
    MatthewGeorgeMatthewGeorge Cologne, Germany

    I hope it's a matter of time.
    It's been brought up here as well:
    http://forums.synthstrom.com/discussion/494/creating-a-midi-drum-map#latest
    I'm super keen to see this implemented.

  • 2
    amiga909amiga909 Switzerland

    upvote. Many drum modules implement the GM standard. Hopefully easy to fix, to allow reordering of tracks for Miditracks could be very quick to implement.
    Possible to fix with an external midi mapper, for example battery powered Midipal by Mutable Instruments. Not a workflow I am keen to get used to though.
    For a full fledged midi hardware integration, I would favor a way to edit template files in xml/json format. Much like the Cirklon does it.

    • assign a midi channel
    • name notes (override note name, eg. "C4" => "kick")
    • assign CC numbers to names
      Have to admit Cirklon is a dedicated midi sequencer so might be overkill for the Deluge.
  • 0
    alien_brainalien_brain this side of common sense

    yeah cirklon cant be compared to deluge. digitakt or octatrack is more like it

  • 0
    PuppeteerPuppeteer Perth, West Oz
    I'd like to see this as well, especially the naming of notes. Have an option of loading a drum map on a track with the restricted note ranges (could possibly use a variant of scales to achieve this) and the note names. Am happy if the maps are built on a computer, rather than being able.to edit on the deluge.
  • 2

    I brought up a similar topic in another area of the board, but to consolidate, I'll add the other bits of my thoughts here.

    In addition to condensing the available notes to just the ones that trigger drums (like Myrk said - note 42 could be immediately next to note 46) by creating a Drum Map or Drum Scale, the ability to restrict the vertical display to only the range of notes that are mapped would be fantastic. That way, you could whip the up/down knob quickly to cover the full range of available drum sounds, use the audition buttons to find a good matching sound, program in a line, and move on very quickly.

    Right now, I use mutes to indicate 'blank' notes with no drum sound mapped and use 3 or 4 mutes in a row to indicate the top end and bottom end of the range.

    In addition, I save my blank pattern of mutes as x and then I program actual patterns and save them as xA, xB, ...

    It all works, but it's more messy than it could be with a few software changes.

  • 1
    amiga909amiga909 Switzerland

    upvote for condensing as oldgearguy says.
    Killer feature to have for faster navigation in general.
    UI idea: In track view hold SHIFT and press UP/DOWN to remove all unused rows. If there are no unused rows the removal is reverted and all rows are visible again.

  • 1

    Yes please, as oldgearguy put it...

  • 0
    alien_brainalien_brain this side of common sense

    bump

  • 0
    LjkLjk Austin Tx USA

    +1

  • 0

    Yeah, overlapping FRs for basically this feature which is probably why the amount of upvotes seems rather 'watered down'.

    I would love the ability to assign a MIDI note to each row in a kit so that one can easily work on a track away from the studio using samples and then switch to 'midi' when in the studio to trigger a hardware groovebox from the same track.

    I've remapped my Tempest but this has other knock-on issues and it's a major, major PITA to remap software like Superior Drummer all the time.

    Noise, Noodles and Doodles: http://bit.ly/mrjonesthebutcher

  • 0
    MPrinsenMPrinsen Netherlands
    edited May 8

    This and the alternative song/track launch view (ableton session view) are the only 2 things that kind of hold me back from buying a Deluge.

    It would be great to create a kit on Deluge, where you can mix and match internal sounds with midi notes (so external drum sounds)..

    Post edited by MPrinsen on
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