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Auto Multi-Sampling

3

Prompted by a post on the Reddit group I figured out a technique where you could 'automatically' sample external synths so that you can load them into the Deluge as a multi-sample instrument. I'll just copy and paste the text below. I've got it to a point where you can auto create audio clips for each note but then I don't know what to do with the audio clips (in terms of naming and saving them).

From Reddit post:

_Create a Synth track (just use any preset). Then on the grid put down notes at the start of the pattern that you want to sample and make them the entire length of the clip.

Now go into the Arpeggio (ARP) settings and set: Mode = UP, Octaves = 1, Sync = 1 bar

Press play on the Deluge and you should hear each note played individual each time the clip loops.

Go to Song mode.

Add an Audio track and set the input to 'OUTPUT' (this is just to resample the Deluge output, you'd set it different for external input)

Hold down RECORD and change the mode of the audio track (press the MUTE/LAUNCH pad) to flashing red.

Press PLAY and then just as the last note in your arpeggio chord is playing, hold down RECORD and press the AUDITION pad on the track BELOW the audio track.

The Deluge will record individual audio tracks for each note.

Press the MUTE pad on the last audio track to stop recording.

Now, at this point, we have several audio clips containing a single note but I don't know (yet) how to save those so that you could the load them as a multi-sample set._

Comments

  • 1
    neilbaldwinneilbaldwin UKPosts: 95

    Actually, an even simpler way would be to layer up the notes you want to sample in the Deluge MIDI clip then set the Iteration setting for each note so the first note plays 1 of 8, second note play 2 of 8 and so on (depending on how many note you want to sample).

    I've just tried it to sample my Elektron M:S and it works great.

    Just still can't figure an easy way to deal with the resulting samples apart from putting the SD card into a computer and creating a folder to move them in to.

  • 0
    amiga909amiga909 Central EuropePosts: 1,063

    creative approach 😀
    Iteration for multis with up to 8 samples is a nice idea. Dont know if its really faster than just making a long clip and place the notes as usual.
    If I get u right, u want a way to do multis all on the Deluge without ejecting the SD card. I dont think this is possible as you need a folder for multis and there is no way to move samples out of the temp or resample folders. If I have to use a computer I just record it as a long audio and process it with a silence detection splitter. If I remember right I dont have to tell you - there is a tool made by you, originally for transient slicing 😀

  • 0
    neilbaldwinneilbaldwin UKPosts: 95

    Haha! Yes, it's far from ideal but actually more handy for doing Kits - the resulting samples are far easier loaded into a Kit than as multi-samples. Not sure if it's much use in it's current form but it made me think there should be a shortcut like: hold a grid pad on an Audio clip and press SAVE to save the sample into the SAMPLES folder (with naming etc.). Or also raised up the issue of the Deluge desperately needing some basic folder/file operations from the Setup menu.

  • 0
    neilbaldwinneilbaldwin UKPosts: 95

    Oh and watch this space for Delslice V3. Having a few teething problems but it will be working soon I think.

  • 0
    amiga909amiga909 Central EuropePosts: 1,063

    Cool i ll watch out for the new version, I made a basic silence trim slicer with bash and a mac library called sox, a python script probably can do a better job.

    @neilbaldwin said:
    Haha! Yes, it's far from ideal but actually more handy for doing Kits - the resulting samples are far easier loaded into a Kit than as multi-samples. Not sure if it's much use in it's current form but it made me think there should be a shortcut like: hold a grid pad on an Audio clip and press SAVE to save the sample into the SAMPLES folder (with naming etc.).

    Interesting idea, yeah. This would come handy for the Deluge slicer too, I often wished I could make drumkits from sliced beats.

    Or also raised up the issue of the Deluge desperately needing some basic folder/file operations from the Setup menu.

    There was an old suggestion to let the Deluge act as SD card reader when connected via USB to a computer. Ideally while the Deluge is operating as usual. Most OS already have powerful folder/file operations so why force it to the tiny Deluge display. If I could hook up my phone and access the files it would be a better solution I think. Really wonder if this is possible technically.

  • 0
    staubistaubi Erlangen/GermanyPosts: 30

    @neilbaldwin said:
    Prompted by a post on the Reddit group I figured out a technique where you could 'automatically' sample external synths so that you can load them into the Deluge as a multi-sample instrument. I'll just copy and paste the text below. I've got it to a point where you can auto create audio clips for each note but then I don't know what to do with the audio clips (in terms of naming and saving them).

    From Reddit post:

    _Create a Synth track (just use any preset). Then on the grid put down notes at the start of the pattern that you want to sample and make them the entire length of the clip.

    Now go into the Arpeggio (ARP) settings and set: Mode = UP, Octaves = 1, Sync = 1 bar

    Press play on the Deluge and you should hear each note played individual each time the clip loops.

    Go to Song mode.

    Add an Audio track and set the input to 'OUTPUT' (this is just to resample the Deluge output, you'd set it different for external input)

    Hold down RECORD and change the mode of the audio track (press the MUTE/LAUNCH pad) to flashing red.

    Press PLAY and then just as the last note in your arpeggio chord is playing, hold down RECORD and press the AUDITION pad on the track BELOW the audio track.

    The Deluge will record individual audio tracks for each note.

    Press the MUTE pad on the last audio track to stop recording.

    Now, at this point, we have several audio clips containing a single note but I don't know (yet) how to save those so that you could the load them as a multi-sample set._

    Yesterday I sampled 8 octaves from my oldschoold Korg 01/w like described above way (while watching Superbooth20 home edition). It worked like a charm!
    Here are my learnings:
    -- Learn the looper function! This drove me crazy at first, but after manual digging and some exercising I feel comfortable now.
    -- Be careful with the input level. Take your time to set the level right just below the clipping points for high, medium and low range notes.
    -- After 3 octaves the MIDI send and looping got slightly out of sync. As a result the samples of higher notes contain about 90ms of the previous note. This may not be a deluge issue but an issue of my 01/w.
    -- At first I tried to sample only 4 notes per octave.
    --- When creating a multisample instrument from the recorded samples the deluge did not detect the pitch properly because of the above effect. So I tried to give the deluge hints by writing the correct note in the file names.
    --- Doing so I completely lost overview while renaming the bunch of files of my computer, So I deleted them and simply sampled every semitone over 8 octaves. Brute force, but that worked fine :-)
    -- Still the samples contained some miliseconds of the previous note. I set the start point manually for a single note on the deluge behind that point (at about 100ms) and copy/replaced that XML-text with a text editor in the multisample-synth.XML on my computer.
    This took me a total of 2 hours including all errors and learnings. With some routine it's realistic to create an 8 octave full multisample in 15 or even less minutes.

    Brass side of life: JTK and SHCB

  • 1
    neilbaldwinneilbaldwin UKPosts: 95

    Oh, I meant to update this because I discovered something that you'll want to address:

    By default the 'fade in' is on when sampling. This is when the Deluge samples a little bit before actual sampling takes place. If you're sampling in this way to the use as samples for an instrument you'll discover that there's a couple of ms on the front of the sample that you don't want. Go into settings and (I think) into Record and the setting is in there somewhere - turn it off. It's very useful for 'regular' looper sampling but in this case you want it off otherwise your samples will be triggering slightly late.

  • 0
    staubistaubi Erlangen/GermanyPosts: 30
    edited April 25

    Cool hint. I will try this later today!

    Post edited by staubi on

    Brass side of life: JTK and SHCB

  • 0
    amiga909amiga909 Central EuropePosts: 1,063

    @neilbaldwin said:
    Oh, I meant to update this because I discovered something that you'll want to address:

    By default the 'fade in' is on when sampling. This is when the Deluge samples a little bit before actual sampling takes place. If you're sampling in this way to the use as samples for an instrument you'll discover that there's a couple of ms on the front of the sample that you don't want. Go into settings and (I think) into Record and the setting is in there somewhere - turn it off. It's very useful for 'regular' looper sampling but in this case you want it off otherwise your samples will be triggering slightly late.

    thanks, forgot about that setting. its RECORD/MARGins.
    it only applies when recording to an Audio clip though. tested it, there are no added ms when recording directly to the RESAMPLE folder.

  • 1
    neilbaldwinneilbaldwin UKPosts: 95

    @amiga909 said:

    @neilbaldwin said:
    Oh, I meant to update this because I discovered something that you'll want to address:

    By default the 'fade in' is on when sampling. This is when the Deluge samples a little bit before actual sampling takes place. If you're sampling in this way to the use as samples for an instrument you'll discover that there's a couple of ms on the front of the sample that you don't want. Go into settings and (I think) into Record and the setting is in there somewhere - turn it off. It's very useful for 'regular' looper sampling but in this case you want it off otherwise your samples will be triggering slightly late.

    thanks, forgot about that setting. its RECORD/MARGins.
    it only applies when recording to an Audio clip though. tested it, there are no added ms when recording directly to the RESAMPLE folder.

    Yeah that's true but the 'auto sampling' idea uses audio clip recording so it definitely does apply there man :)

  • 0
    ooijjooijj BerlinPosts: 13

    @staubi said:
    -- Learn the looper function! This drove me crazy at first, but after manual digging and some exercising I feel comfortable now.

    @staubi the looper function is driving me crazy too! I've looked through the producer's guide, and watched videos, but I still can't seem to get it to play nice, especially when I add long audio tracks. Were there any resources that were helpful to you in learning how the looper works?

  • 0
    staubistaubi Erlangen/GermanyPosts: 30

    @ooijj said:

    @staubi said:
    -- Learn the looper function! This drove me crazy at first, but after manual digging and some exercising I feel comfortable now.

    @staubi the looper function is driving me crazy too! I've looked through the producer's guide, and watched videos, but I still can't seem to get it to play nice, especially when I add long audio tracks. Were there any resources that were helpful to you in learning how the looper works?

    I just used the producers guide to figure the looper out. Since I didn't used the function in the last few weeks anymore I am sure that I would need to dig into the manual again now ;-). In term of usability I find it one of the least intuitive functions of the deluge. But I's a very cool one :-)

    Brass side of life: JTK and SHCB

  • 0
    staubistaubi Erlangen/GermanyPosts: 30

    @neilbaldwin said:

    @amiga909 said:

    @neilbaldwin said:
    Oh, I meant to update this because I discovered something that you'll want to address:

    By default the 'fade in' is on when sampling. This is when the Deluge samples a little bit before actual sampling takes place. If you're sampling in this way to the use as samples for an instrument you'll discover that there's a couple of ms on the front of the sample that you don't want. Go into settings and (I think) into Record and the setting is in there somewhere - turn it off. It's very useful for 'regular' looper sampling but in this case you want it off otherwise your samples will be triggering slightly late.

    thanks, forgot about that setting. its RECORD/MARGins.
    it only applies when recording to an Audio clip though. tested it, there are no added ms when recording directly to the RESAMPLE folder.

    Yeah that's true but the 'auto sampling' idea uses audio clip recording so it definitely does apply there man :)

    And the good news is that it definitely solved my problem above. Thanks for the hint!

    Brass side of life: JTK and SHCB

  • 0
    darenagerdarenager Between a rack and a hardware placePosts: 192

    What is the advantage of doing it this way rather than using a kit, laying out the midi notes of the synth you want to sample, sample as a long file, then using slice? That way you should not need to use the computer at all? I suppose that multisamples offer some advantages over using a kit, but for some stuff like say a range of synth notes it might be ok? Not sure hence the question :)

  • 0
    neilbaldwinneilbaldwin UKPosts: 95

    @darenager said:
    What is the advantage of doing it this way rather than using a kit, laying out the midi notes of the synth you want to sample, sample as a long file, then using slice? That way you should not need to use the computer at all? I suppose that multisamples offer some advantages over using a kit, but for some stuff like say a range of synth notes it might be ok? Not sure hence the question :)

    The major one is that you end up with individual samples - you can't create a multi-sample instrument from a single sliced sample. Well, you can manually. There's still manual work to do in the method I outlined and I did say it wasn't perfect by any means. Both of these methods are handy for sampling though. I've used the one you described a lot in the past to sample stuff from verious drum machines to turn into kits. 👍🏻

  • 0
    darenagerdarenager Between a rack and a hardware placePosts: 192

    Gotcha, thanks, I’m still not too familiar with the multisample aspect as I’ve mostly only used mine for kits or loops so far.

    It would be great to have an automagic multisampling thing like 1010Blackbox/MPC/Sample Robot but not sure how it would be possible to fit in the UI. I’ll definitely try your method though, seems like a fairly efficient way.

    One thing I really like about kits is the individual parameters per row, like say different reverb settings or what have you, for pitched instruments (rather than drums) though not ideal as won’t follow scale settings AFAICT.

  • 0
    neilbaldwinneilbaldwin UKPosts: 95

    @darenager said:
    Gotcha, thanks, I’m still not too familiar with the multisample aspect as I’ve mostly only used mine for kits or loops so far.

    It would be great to have an automagic multisampling thing like 1010Blackbox/MPC/Sample Robot but not sure how it would be possible to fit in the UI. I’ll definitely try your method though, seems like a fairly efficient way.

    One thing I really like about kits is the individual parameters per row, like say different reverb settings or what have you, for pitched instruments (rather than drums) though not ideal as won’t follow scale settings AFAICT.

    Kits are one of the Deluge's most powerful features. So useful for many things that AREN"T drum kits! :smile: I just wish we could have solo, mute in time with clip loop (like track mute) and it needs some functions to edit multiple kit lanes (and duplicate kit lanes!). Would be the best OS update ever! :smile:

  • 0
    darenagerdarenager Between a rack and a hardware placePosts: 192

    Agreed

    @neilbaldwin said:

    (and duplicate kit lanes!). Would be the best OS update ever! :smile:

    Yes if we could copy lanes in kit just like in song that would be killer, it would make kit creation so much quicker.

    I think a few more consistent behaviours across the Deluge such as these are more valuable to me than more features (though of course these are awesome too)

  • 0
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator Posts: 676
    edited June 24

    @darenager said:
    What is the advantage of doing it this way rather than using a kit, laying out the midi notes of the synth you want to sample, sample as a long file, then using slice? That way you should not need to use the computer at all? I suppose that multisamples offer some advantages over using a kit, but for some stuff like say a range of synth notes it might be ok? Not sure hence the question :)

    A multisample 'instrument' will also use less resources than a kit for the same amount of samples (as you may know, having a bunch of (unused) samples sitting around in kits ready to stream from SD takes up overhead CPU) :)

    Post edited by Icoustik on
  • 0
    darenagerdarenager Between a rack and a hardware placePosts: 192

    I did not know that, thanks. I guess the thing I like about kits is the ability to have separate settings - filter, eq, fx etc per row, so for certain instruments that can be useful. Definitely nice to have both options, to use as appropriate though.

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