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Arpeggiator additions

61
MyrkMyrk Taunton, UKPosts: 83

So I've been fiddling with the arp (I'm big on arpeggiators!), and it's a tad strange and lacking some vital features imo. From my own feelings I think Novation might be the best company when it comes to arps (with the features available) - very similar to Roland but with a few added extra features in there that tick all the boxes.

Firstly wanted to address the "rate" control - do other people find this is a useful feature (the way it is represented), because to me it seems non-sensical to have the number 25, and have only 5 notches of usability before it goes into non-musical / drone territory, or covered by another feature like Sync. Surely rate could have 'Straight', 'triplet', 'quintuplet', and 'septuplet'. Then combined with the sync you could set sync to be 8th, and rate to be triplet, so you'd get 8th triplets. Or 16th sync and rate of quintuplet, so you get 16th quintuplets (obviously at this stage if recorded the deluge would quantize to triplets or straight divisible notes as 5ths and 7ths only exist through sync-scaling). This would be far more sensible in my eyes, but curious what others think on this rate=25.

My other, more important feature request is with the arp "mode" - could we have some more variants of "both" (maybe better to call it UD for "up down") - UD1, UD2, UD3, etc. At the moment "both" is step 1, 2, 3, 2. Would be useful to have 1, 2, 3, 3, 2, 1, and other typical variants that are prominent in other manufacturers arps. This really has a massive impact when it comes to the octaves set for the arp, as currently if I hold 3 notes on "both" with 2 octave setting I get a normal 4 note up down, followed by a 2nd 4 note up down 1 octave higher (as expected so far), then back down with just 2 notes which is odd, then repeat - I'd expect just 8 notes with 2 octaves not 10. This is also effected by not having the triplet function within the arp, which would allow the arp to deal with the way octave jumps would work in 3 note patterns etc. especially if using UD2 (1, 2, 3, 3, 2, 1) with dual octave which in triplet mode would give 12 notes that fits into a standard bar as triplets.

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Comments

  • 2

    yes I agree with suggestions on the arp rate. I would also like 'patterns' like the novation bass station can do, although pretty much the same effect can also be achieved by modulating the rate from an LFO

  • 1
    MyrkMyrk Taunton, UKPosts: 83

    I think my issue is much deeper than LFO capabilities... it's a problem that a lot of major synth manufacturers also get wrong in some gear and never get round the fixing - arps can be a lot of hassle when dealing with the octaves and number of notes that should sound. For instance the Roland JD-XA has a major bug with triplet mode when doing 3 octaves, causing it to go into a 4 note grouping rather than 3 note (which is what should happen in a triplet mode!). It's a difficult one that needs a fair amount of attention and testing to ensure that the number of notes and formation is correct given the settings the user selects. As I said, even major manufacturers mess this up in some prominent hardware synths (it's not just me being awkward, it's a well documented issue on synths that have these issues)!

  • 16
    rpc9943rpc9943 New York usaPosts: 167

    hell why not make a phrase arpeggiator? that way you could program a phrase, and then go to the tracking view, and it could convert the note as "triggering" the phrase you program in??? Wouldn't that be great?

  • 3
    MyrkMyrk Taunton, UKPosts: 83
    edited September 2017

    Yus! +1 for having templates that you can save, that way you could have the arp templates you use yourself as a musician rather than scrolling through a bunch of "factory presets" that can never be deleted. Awesome idea Ron.

    Post edited by Myrk on
  • 0
    BobbiPeruBobbiPeru Oakland, CAPosts: 10

    +1 for patterns & phrases

  • 5
    StromerStromer GermanyPosts: 47
    edited May 2018

    In the 80th my first program on the Atari ST Computer was an arpeggiator. And the easiest way I found out to get impressive arpeggios is a simple arp-editor. For each of the xx notes you define what the arp should make with it (only 2 parameters per note are neccessary - direction and transpose, maybe velocity). Save this as a preset and done. For me the classical up-down or up/down is boring and an always-random arpeggiator senseless. It would make more sense if with each press of a random buttom it would generate a 1 bar random-pattern and repeat this, instead of generating each bar a complete new one. And a controller-arpeggiator would be the perfect addon to the notes/velocity-arpeggiatpor!

    Post edited by Stromer on
  • 2
    amiga909amiga909 SwitzerlandPosts: 603

    big upvote :)

    some thoughts on arp:
    being a bad keyboard player i love arps :)
    an editor would be very cool.

    the arpeggiator i used and still use the most is from Roland JP8000. it has about 30 preprogrammed arp patterns (+ quantization and octave range params), most are "musical" i'd say. i found mixing different arp patterns being quite effective (changing pattern on the fly by sysex is possible).

    an editor would be great, a good selection of out-of-the-box patterns matters i think. a way to automate the arp pattern type would be really helpful too.

  • 0
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  • 0
    LjkLjk Austin Tx USAPosts: 61

    Great idea @rpc9943 !

  • 2
    Mystic38Mystic38 Posts: 19

    @rpc9943 its unclear if by phrase you mean step sequence vs an arp pattern..? but luckily they both have their place. :)

    my thoughts..

    a big +1 @Myrk, for starting this thread and the suggestions that a) More pattern variations are sorely needed, and b) Rates should include triplets and dotted variations.

    and ..
    1. A sync mechanism to deal with patterns longer, or shorter than deluge pattern length. The value of this cannot be understated as.arp patterns inherently require a certain number of notes to be balanced to a measure count hence dealing with the over/under is crucial to be musical...inspiration here is Novation Nova/SuperNova implementation.
    2. A programmable arp mode. Personally I think that the place to look for inspiration for programmable arps is the Novation Nova/Supernova, the Waldorf Q/uQ, or the Roland MC-909/Fantom-X.. the implementation of the latter is WELL SUITED to the display of the Deluge.

    I realize programming these things is a big undertaking, however a powerful arpeggiator gives tons of inspiration & flexibility

    thanks

  • 2
    VJFranzKVJFranzK Los Angeles USAPosts: 108

    Arp is lots of fun! I'd like to be able to change the note division with the gold knobs, and LFOs

    ( See also the thread on "note repeat". )

    Music, Visuals, Reviews of Synths, Drum Machines, Apps
    YouTube: VJFranzK

  • 2
    MyrkMyrk Taunton, UKPosts: 83
    edited June 2018

    Yer some really good additions to my original point here, and happy a few people see the importance of a good arp and the way it repeats within different timing intervals - it's a make or break on some synths (it's not on the deluge, but would be great to have it do it "right"). I think the programmable arp would be mighty useful for using the arp to play drums with!

    Post edited by Myrk on
  • 0
    AeCartAeCart Goshen, IN USAPosts: 10

    An issue I've been noticing is that the rate adjustment combined with the sync adjustment delivers inconsistent arps. It has to do with when the arp cuts off, it's not clean. Sometimes it includes different amounts of an additional arpeggiated note and sometimes not. It behaves like the rate is being controlled by an lfo that's not in sync with the tempo/note division. Is anyone else running into this?

  • 0
    jC3jC3 Posts: 6

    Aside from the obvious missing mode - playing the arp in the order the notes were pressed - how about Moog's oddly-named invert mode, where each note is played across the octaves before moving on to the next note? Or an inversion mode - for example, C E G | E G C' | G C' E' if one octave is selected?

    BTW, one possible nice feature of the played order arp mode on something like the Deluge is that, since most notes can be played on several different pads, one could generate a pattern in which one or more notes are repeated before the pattern repeats, such as Alberti bass....but, you know, more hip than that. B)

    (If the played order mode exists, I apologize - I don't own a Deluge yet, still thinking about it. I got my information from the v1.2 manual online.)

  • 1
    o0_o0_ SANTA MONICAPosts: 106

    Take a look at the Arpeggiators in both the MicroMonsta and the Blofeld. Both have programmable Arp modes which are super flexible:

    Both allow for Note, Pause, Accent, Glide notations in the arp, control over direction, repeating notes, octave shifting, as well as mapping the sorted notes of the input chord into the order you want to use them in.

  • 0
    jC3jC3 Posts: 6
    edited June 2018

    Something like the Blofeld's arp would be great to have, but how long does it take to map the input chord? Would it be too slow for live playing? How about transposing in the middle of a song?

    Post edited by jC3 on
  • 0
    o0_o0_ SANTA MONICAPosts: 106

    @jC3 said:
    Something like the Blofeld's arp would be great to have, but how long does it take to map the input chord? Would it be too slow for live playing? How about transposing in the middle of a song?

    it's instantaneous. we're talking about sorting 3-8 notes. even an underpowered pocket operator could do it

  • 0
    jC3jC3 Posts: 6

    @o0_ said:

    it's instantaneous. we're talking about sorting 3-8 notes. even an underpowered pocket operator could do it

    So you can just play the pattern once, out of time, and the arp will play it? I was afraid you'd have to manually enter the direction from one note to the next or something.

  • 0
    beamerbeamer Hamilton, CanadaPosts: 4

    I just want normal options like triplets sync and note order mode!

  • 0
    72versions72versions Auckland NZPosts: 21

    Anyone keen on Brownian Motion mode?

  • 0
    SerbanSerban London, UKPosts: 13
    edited January 7

    +100 for n-tuplets in synced rate!

    Post edited by Serban on
  • 0
    gjvtigjvti Posts: 23

    @Mystic38 said:
    @rpc9943 its unclear if by phrase you mean step sequence vs an arp pattern..? but luckily they both have their place. :)

    my thoughts..

    a big +1 @Myrk, for starting this thread and the suggestions that a) More pattern variations are sorely needed, and b) Rates should include triplets and dotted variations.

    and ..
    1. A sync mechanism to deal with patterns longer, or shorter than deluge pattern length. The value of this cannot be understated as.arp patterns inherently require a certain number of notes to be balanced to a measure count hence dealing with the over/under is crucial to be musical...inspiration here is Novation Nova/SuperNova implementation.
    2. A programmable arp mode. Personally I think that the place to look for inspiration for programmable arps is the Novation Nova/Supernova, the Waldorf Q/uQ, or the Roland MC-909/Fantom-X.. the implementation of the latter is WELL SUITED to the display of the Deluge.

    I realize programming these things is a big undertaking, however a powerful arpeggiator gives tons of inspiration & flexibility

    thanks

    As we discussing arpeggiator - I think best examples of programmable arpeggiator with user patterns are Midibox Sequencer, Korg Triton series, Synthmaster VST, and Kirnu Cream, which allow user to define which note/notes and how are played from incoming chord in each particular step user can define its own order. If Deluge arpeggiator section gets rewritten than this (programmable user patterns) would we very welcome addition ;)

  • 1
    krunchrkrunchr Mainz, GermanyPosts: 62

    A chord trigger mode (like in the Microkorg and other Korg synths) would a welcome addition.

  • 1
    amiga909amiga909 SwitzerlandPosts: 603

    a phrase arpeggiator would be rad.

  • 1
    doodloodoodloo Lisbon, PortugalPosts: 33

    +1 for Arpeggiator patterns and stuff!

  • 0
    gjvtigjvti Posts: 23

    Well, if Spectrasonics could unexpectedly do major arpeggiator upgrade/revision, maybe we can hope Synthstrom can do that too :)
    https://s3.amazonaws.com/ww2.sonicftp.com/news/images/30984_219.jpg

  • 0
    gjvtigjvti Posts: 23

    Well, if Spectrasonics could unexpectedly do major arpeggiator upgrade/revision, maybe we can hope Synthstrom can do that too :)
    https://s3.amazonaws.com/ww2.sonicftp.com/news/images/30984_219.jpg

  • 1
    iFreilichtiFreilicht GermanyPosts: 29
    edited April 12

    Yes please, triplets arp sync is direly needed. Maybe (to not make options impossible to wade through), one could use the <> knob to set the "n-ness" of the arp pattern? So you'd select 4/3/5/7/dotted/whatever with <>, and 4bar/2bar/1bar/2nd/4th/8th/16th/32nd/64th with the select knob as is already done.

    Could be spelled n(.)-div, like 3-16, 5-4, 4.-32 on the display. This could also be used for LFOs.

    Pattern editing would be nice as well, but that seems like a much more sophisticated change. This would require a special Arp View.

    Arp View Concept

    Arp View is opened automatically when selecting ARP->MODE.

    You can then flick through the patterns, which are displayed in a non-scale grid, and edit them as well. Every row of the grid represents one pressed key. So the bottom row is the lowest key, the one above the next key and so on.

    Arp patterns could look like this:

    UP

    DOWN

    BOTH

    Something custom

    One problem is how to allow for up-and-down movements. I solved this by having two separate sections for that. If the arp reaches the rightmost note but there are still higher ones held down, it will start from the left again with the next note being the new "lowest". Once it reached the highest note, it will jump to the section on the right.

    Maybe a setting BOUNCE would be enough, though.

    With this one could also make triplets sync happen by using triplets mode while editing the pattern, though that would be cumbersome.

    Post edited by iFreilicht on
  • 1
    amiga909amiga909 SwitzerlandPosts: 603

    @iFreilicht said:
    Yes please, triplets arp sync is direly needed. Maybe (to not make options impossible to wade through), one could use the <> knob to set the "n-ness" of the arp pattern? So you'd select 4/3/5/7/dotted/whatever with <>, and 4bar/2bar/1bar/2nd/4th/8th/16th/32nd/64th with the select knob as is already done.

    Could be spelled n(.)-div, like 3-16, 5-4, 4.-32 on the display. This could also be used for LFOs.

    yeah

  • 0
    schwizschwiz United StatesPosts: 13

    Aside from the extra modes, it would be nice to have varied gate length for the notes, programable and a few presets as well as skipped gates and random.

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