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Controlling synth parameters from midi controller

0

I would like somebody to verify this:
I set up an external midi controller to control some synth parameters using the learn function on Deluge. So far so good.
Now if I go to another clip in Deluge with another synth, I have to setup all those parameters one more time, to control the same set of parameters on the second synth?
Is this the way things are?

If true, that seems very counter-productive to me. Why not have the incoming cc always be controlling the active synth? Similar to how it would work an any daw: The active track gets the incoming midi.

Comments

  • 0
    pfrfpfrf ca, u.s.a.Posts: 153

    I find this frustrating, too. I know some kind of permanent MIDI assignments or templates is a common feature request. I believe the controller assignments are saved per synth preset.

  • 0
    LarsDanielLarsDaniel DenmarkPosts: 21

    Wow. That is so, uhm, special.
    I was looking forward to let the 16 rotary encoders on my Beatstep Pro be linked to the 16 gold-knob parameters (or some other favorites) on permanent basis, so I could just get all that into my fingers, but nope, apparently that is not going to happen.
    Unless I a: Re-program every preset I want to use, or b: only use sounds that originate from my own basic template.
    In both cases: What if my needs change over time? Oh, I will just have reprogram all the presets again.

    I am missing a point here? Because I am very new to the Deluge.
    If was equally new to making electronic music, perhaps I would be wow’ed that I could control a parameter on the Deluge with a knob on another device at all, but hey, it is 2020 and it is my 40th year with synthesizers, and I need stuff that works. As it is, I can’t imagine why people are even discussing what midi-controller to use with Deluge.

  • 0
    amiga909amiga909 Central EuropePosts: 912

    @pfrf said:
    I find this frustrating, too. I know some kind of permanent MIDI assignments or templates is a common feature request. I believe the controller assignments are saved per synth preset.

    Midi assignments (other than the Global commands) are saved per song because presets are saved per song too.
    The rational is you cannot destroy a song when you resave a preset in another song.

    Wow. That is so, uhm, special.
    it is my 40th year with synthesizers, and I need stuff that works. As it is, I can’t imagine why people are even discussing what midi-controller to use with Deluge.

    A workaround is to use song templates. For example you can set up a song with 12 empty clips with 12 different sections and you get Section launch mapped in every Song. Another workaround was mentioned by Icoustik, you can apparently pretty easily copy midi assignments in the XML files.
    I feel you, the Deluge does break with some conventions which irritates seasoned users.
    Stuff like:

    • Cloned clips propagate only learnable params (its not the common "1 VSTi + clips = control data" pattern)
    • midi learn from scratch every time
    • delay options without easy recognizable values (for triplets/dotted values you have to use the ear)
    • sidechain compressor is not a compressor effect

    On the other hand the Deluge is a truly original piece of hardware, it has fresh ideas! Getting irritated now and then is a price I am still very happy to pay.

  • 1
    duelinmarkersduelinmarkers Austin TX USPosts: 108

    Maybe this is obvious, but the way it works means that once you assign an external controller to play a certain instrument or tweak a certain parameter, that controller will keep doing that regardless of "where you go" on the Deluge (e.g., into clip view for something else entirely), which is crucial.

    That said, it would be great if we could also assign a controller to follow the currently focused instrument.

  • 0
    GerwinGerwin GermanyPosts: 17

    External Midi controllers should be used as a performance tool not as a synth programmer.
    So only certain controllers and cc mappings make sence for Deluge.

  • 0
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator Posts: 600

    @amiga909 said:

    @pfrf said:
    I find this frustrating, too. I know some kind of permanent MIDI assignments or templates is a common feature request. I believe the controller assignments are saved per synth preset.

    Midi assignments (other than the Global commands) are saved per song because presets are saved per song too.
    The rational is you cannot destroy a song when you resave a preset in another song.

    Wow. That is so, uhm, special.
    it is my 40th year with synthesizers, and I need stuff that works. As it is, I can’t imagine why people are even discussing what midi-controller to use with Deluge.

    A workaround is to use song templates. For example you can set up a song with 12 empty clips with 12 different sections and you get Section launch mapped in every Song. Another workaround was mentioned by Icoustik, you can apparently pretty easily copy midi assignments in the XML files.
    I feel you, the Deluge does break with some conventions which irritates seasoned users.
    Stuff like:

    • Cloned clips propagate only learnable params (its not the common "1 VSTi + clips = control data" pattern)
    • midi learn from scratch every time
    • delay options without easy recognizable values (for triplets/dotted values you have to use the ear)
    • sidechain compressor is not a compressor effect

    On the other hand the Deluge is a truly original piece of hardware, it has fresh ideas! Getting irritated now and then is a price I am still very happy to pay.

    For clarity, CC assignments are saved to presets as well :)

  • 0
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator Posts: 600

    @LarsDaniel said:
    I would like somebody to verify this:
    I set up an external midi controller to control some synth parameters using the learn function on Deluge. So far so good.
    Now if I go to another clip in Deluge with another synth, I have to setup all those parameters one more time, to control the same set of parameters on the second synth?
    Is this the way things are?

    If true, that seems very counter-productive to me. Why not have the incoming cc always be controlling the active synth? Similar to how it would work an any daw: The active track gets the incoming midi.

    Auto-channel, as it is often called, is a popular request. And might be implemented in a future update.
    Midi presets have been mentioned to be coming.

    In the meantime, as mentioned, you can save your CC assignments to your synth/kit presets, so you don't actually have to set it up each and every time.

  • 0
    jurgisjurgis vilniusPosts: 21

    Control via midi is an issue. I'd suggest you read the manual before making a decision. There is "some" support for external control via midi controllers but it is limited (e.g. - no volume control for drum tracks, no instant track mute or solo, you can't assign midi cc to master fx controls, etc). I can tell you that I have not been able to use the Delgue as I initially intended (performance tool) due to these limitations. I'm still waiting for an update...

  • 0
    LarsDanielLarsDaniel DenmarkPosts: 21

    Ok, so Auto-channel. Can we have that please? Like, please, please, pl-pl-pl-please?

    If it is not clear why, I will explain shortly:
    Lets say you have an 8-knob controller (very common). You have a song on Deluge with say, three synth tracks. (And this can be live performance or working at home.) You set up track one with the controller, so you can tweak your 8 favorite parameters. Maybe you tweak these and record the tweaking over an 8 bars.
    Then you want do record some tweaking on the next synth track. But you can not. Unless you want to UNLEARN the controller from the first track, which you don't want to, because off course you want to be able to go back to that track later a do more stuff. Perhaps on a B-version of the track.
    This is why no DAW ever worked like this. If you have a controller, you definitely do not want it to be hardwired to one track, because, what about the other 3, 7 or 16 tracks you also want to use your nice controller for?

    So please: Auto-channel. The active track gets the midi. Thank you.

  • 1
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator Posts: 600
    edited February 3

    @LarsDaniel said:
    Ok, so Auto-channel. Can we have that please? Like, please, please, pl-pl-pl-please?

    If it is not clear why, I will explain shortly:
    Lets say you have an 8-knob controller (very common). You have a song on Deluge with say, three synth tracks. (And this can be live performance or working at home.) You set up track one with the controller, so you can tweak your 8 favorite parameters. Maybe you tweak these and record the tweaking over an 8 bars.
    Then you want do record some tweaking on the next synth track. But you can not. Unless you want to UNLEARN the controller from the first track, which you don't want to, because off course you want to be able to go back to that track later a do more stuff. Perhaps on a B-version of the track.
    This is why no DAW ever worked like this. If you have a controller, you definitely do not want it to be hardwired to one track, because, what about the other 3, 7 or 16 tracks you also want to use your nice controller for?

    So please: Auto-channel. The active track gets the midi. Thank you.

    Its a popular suggestion and I understand the use :) But thanks for your description still.
    I'm not the developer, so I can't say much.

    As a user myself, I can say that using midi controllers, most, in fact all of of mine have several pages with separate mappings, so to control different tracks I switch and use different pages, also different midi channels as well.
    So I'm not experiencing quite the same problem, as I prefer customized mappings per track type.
    But again, I understand your use for an auto-channel approach.

    About firmware, a bugfix update was just released, and bugfixes and stability are a priority before implementing new features of course :)
    forums.synthstrom.com/discussion/2738/deluge-firmware-v3-0-3-released#latest

    Post edited by Icoustik on
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