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Proper MIDI functionality? When?

6
jurgisjurgis vilniusBeta Tester Posts: 31
edited December 2019 in Deluge Help

I love this little box, but I just cannot use it for live applications due to MIDI limitations.

I wanted to know IF there are plans to address these issues and if so, WHEN they might be implemented.

For the deluge to be viable in a live application with it has be able to interface with different midi devices: pedal, pc or midi controller that select target tracks, switch songs (via PC), have mixer-like access to levels, effects, global effects, launch (quantized and on unquantized) to name a few. The specific hurdles I've encountered are:

  • no program change receive
  • limited cc support in instruments
  • no access to (quantised or instant) mute, solo, and launch of tracks in song mode.
  • master effects are unasignable
  • no cc access to entire drum tracks volume, fx, etc.
  • limited cc control when it come to global parameters

There are some "workarounds" but they are cumbersome and create additional problems. I'd really like to know if these limitations have something to do with the architecture, are there by design, or if the unit is just not supposed to be used in such a way.

Post edited by jurgis on

Comments

  • 0
    amiga909amiga909 Central EuropePosts: 1,078

    @jurgis said:
    I love this little box, but I just cannot use it for live applications due to MIDI limitations.

    I wanted to know IF there are plans to address these issues and if so, WHEN they might be implemented.

    For the deluge to be viable in a live application with it has be able to interface with different midi devices: pedal, pc or midi controller that select target tracks, switch songs (via PC), have mixer-like access to levels, effects, global effects, launch (quantized and on unquantized) to name a few. The specific hurdles I've encountered are:

    good overview.
    some request should not be a question of IF. some are more specific.

    • no program change receive

    what do u need it for? should PCs load Songs?

    • limited cc support in instruments

    yeah, actually every param. if i can change a value with the Select knob i should be able to do it with a knob on a external controller.

    • no access to (quantised or instant) mute, solo, and launch of tracks in song mode.

    you can learn quantized launch and section. no instant mute and no solo. yeah, would be nice to have more options. surely i would prefer default cc mappings. you can work with Song templates though.

    • master effects are unasignable
    • no cc access to entire drum tracks volume, fx, etc.

    thats one of the please-just-finish-it for me. master and affect-entire effects are neither accessible via Sound edit mode for fine edit, nor can they be midi learned. its cool i can record automation for these but i am bound to the Deluge.

    • limited cc control when it come to global parameters

    there are some commands, you have to be more specific i reckon?

  • 2
    jurgisjurgis vilniusBeta Tester Posts: 31

    Hey hey @amiga909 .

    We seem to be suffering the same pain. Having at least half of the above mentioned issues solved would already make a very big difference. To answer your questions:

    • Midi Program Changes should load songs. Or at least it would be great if they did.
    • "limited cc control when it comes to global parameters" is about default cc mappings. That's what I was referring to actually. Global midi parameters are limited. We're both looking for more extended default cc mappings.

    Some of this stuff is really basic and standard. Functions that most loopers (RC 300, 202, 505) as well as GrooveBox/ Samplers have (circuit, AKAI MPC's, DIGITAKT, etc...).

    I'm the kind of guy that likes to be monogamous when it comes to gear (especially the master unit of my setup). I decided to commit to this device.... But f I can't move forward with these midi issues, then I can't use it live.
    If I can't use it live, then I'll just have to move on :(

  • 0
    jurgisjurgis vilniusBeta Tester Posts: 31

    Anyone? Does anybody have any idea whether the development team is aware of these midi issues, or if solving them is in the pipeline for future OS?

  • 1
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 1,017

    Its a popular suggestion, and there will hopefully be a well thought-through solution in a future update :)

    ~ Distinguished Delugate ᕕ( ◎_◎)ᕗ

  • 1
    jurgisjurgis vilniusBeta Tester Posts: 31

    @Icoustik said:
    Its a popular suggestion, and there will hopefully be a well thought-through solution in a future update :)

    I'll be keeping my fingers crossed ;)

  • 1
    hurphendalehurphendale PragueBeta Tester Posts: 39

    @jurgis for me, my main need right now is bank select. I'd like to switch between different synth presents using an external midi sequencer, which also will send note data. In fact I'd like to set up a live set which does not change songs ever, but instrument banks are switch and played using the external sequencer.

  • 2
    darenagerdarenager Between a rack and a hardware placeBeta Tester Posts: 222

    Learning midi/PC/CC is ok but personally I’d prefer default mappings for most functions, then when it boots up everything is ready to go, a kind of default CC definition that can be edited as required would be handy, with the option to turn stuff off too, a plain text or xml file on the root of the card and is read upon booting would be great.

    I guess that since the Deluge has so many features coming up with a workable solution might be a challenge, given the number of synthesis types, track types and so on.

  • 0
    amiga909amiga909 Central EuropePosts: 1,078

    @darenager said:
    Learning midi/PC/CC is ok but personally I’d prefer default mappings for most functions, then when it boots up everything is ready to go, a kind of default CC definition that can be edited as required would be handy, with the option to turn stuff off too, a plain text or xml file on the root of the card and is read upon booting would be great.

    I guess that since the Deluge has so many features coming up with a workable solution might be a challenge, given the number of synthesis types, track types and so on.

    it is a good point how to deal with the number of params the Deluge has.

    plain text or xml file on the root of the card

    I like the plain text / xml approach, rather than working for this on the Deluge display. the current global midi command settings are small enough but a list view is just so much easier for this.

    a kind of default CC definition

    question for me is how this could work exactly.

    • master effects: no-brainer, they don't change. e.g. master LPF could be CC74/channel1
    • section launch would be easy too, like default CCs for the section colors 1-12, CC1-12/channel2
    • synth params. you are right, it's getting dense with CCs. I'd opted for a remote midi channel setting which gets active when in Track view. means, e.g. you select midi channel 16 as remote channel. if Track view is active and there is incoming midi from channel 16, the notes are auto-learned. same for params, e.g. CC72/channel16 is mapped to LPF cutoff. the overhead of relearning all the time is the most demanded suggestion related to this topic http://forums.synthstrom.com/discussion/236/midi-controller-assignment-option-to-access-the-selected-edited-track. this approach answers the number of params, as 128 CCs are well enough by now if the 4 modes do not need an exclusive mapping. a remote midi channel would also answer the problem of backwards compatibility - you still can play multiple clips simultaneously by learning clips to multiple midi channels.

    • clip launch. don't see a way to do that with default CC?

    • kit params. the affect-entire effect chain would be easy, same thing with remote channel. for kit rows, don't see a way to do that with default CC?
  • 1
    jurgisjurgis vilniusBeta Tester Posts: 31
    edited January 2020

    @darenager said:
    Learning midi/PC/CC is ok but personally I’d prefer default mappings for most functions, then when it boots up everything is ready to go, a kind of default CC definition that can be edited as required would be handy, with the option to turn stuff off too, a plain text or xml file on the root of the card and is read upon booting would be great.

    agree completely... but t the moment I've created template saves that more or less solve that problem. And I could live with that "work-around". But unfortunately, I can't map half the functions I need to begin with :/

    Post edited by jurgis on
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