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Sampling Strategy

3
neilbaldwinneilbaldwin UKBeta Tester Posts: 143

(Reddit cross-post)

I think my own imagined method of how I should approach sampling on the Deluge clashes with how it's actually implemented and, as such, I find it frustrating still.

I sat down yesterday after reorganising my studio space a bit (new mixer) and had been listening to some 90s hip hop while rerouting cables etc. Inspired by a few tracks I'd never heard before I thought I'd sit down, plug my phone into the Deluge and sample a couple of breakbeats.

In the past I would always go straight for a new Kit and sample into a few rows, trimming the start and end points as I go. It's a decent workflow and you can get the job done. Hang on though, I thought, there's loads of new audio related functions in V3 so there must be a better way, especially with the very much welcome improvements to assigning inputs and input monitoring (really great).

So I sat there and realised I had no idea how to achieve what I wanted to do via an Audio Track/Clip.

Here's where I got:

1) Created a new Audio Track in Song Mode and set the input to 'STEREO.' - all good so far
2) After pressing all sorts of button combinations (my instinct, from doing this via Kits, was to hold RECORD and PRESS the AUDITION PAD of the newly created Audio Track....NOPE!) I figured that you can't sample anything unless the Deluge is playing. OK then.
3) Once I had a recording I set about trimming it. This is where the real problems start.
4) First of all, how the hell do you trim the start of an Audio Clip? You can trim the end by scrolling all the way to the end and tapping on the far right pad but why can't you do the same for start?
5) Second, being forced to go into Waveform view to trim the Start of the recording, as I'm narrowing in on getting the Start/End just right, the only way to play the sound is by having the Deluge in play mode (no audition key?!) and then because it defaults to time stretching the recording, the playback gets slower, and slower and slower until eventually I've nailed the trim just right but now the sample plays back at totally the wrong speed. Great.
6) But wait! There's a new function to grab the tempo from an Audio Clip, surely with that (actually very cool) function, all my troubles will be over. Hold Tempo and press a Grid Pad and BAM! the sample is playing at the proper speed. YES!
7) Erm...hang on...my tempo is now 424 BPM (for a 108 BPM breakbeat) which is utterly unusable...
8) Now what? Oh, maybe I can quadruple the sample then redo the tempo grab function?! Nope.
9) ...
10) Turned the Deluge off.

Am I just approaching it wrong? How would you do the same thing i.e. sample a breakbeat and then use that as the basis of a track? Seems like the Deluge should be able to do this in it's sleep but so far it's eluding me.

Comments

  • 1
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 1,017

    Well, I'd first sample to a kit if not looping (live looping if you catch my drift) which it seems you aren't. Edit it the good old way you're used to, and THEN import it into an audio clip using the Browse shortcut, to be treated as a loop that already has been edited to function as a loop :) Hope that makes sense

    ~ Distinguished Delugate ᕕ( ◎_◎)ᕗ

  • 0
    neilbaldwinneilbaldwin UKBeta Tester Posts: 143

    Yeah, as I said at the start, that's how I've always done it.

    It does seem like sampling into an Audio Clip would work if only you could trim the start (as you can the end) - does anyone know why this isn't possible? Seems an odd omission.

  • 0
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 1,017

    @neilbaldwin said:
    Yeah, as I said at the start, that's how I've always done it.

    It does seem like sampling into an Audio Clip would work if only you could trim the start (as you can the end) - does anyone know why this isn't possible? Seems an odd omission.

    Sampling using audio clips is currently made for live looping. Meaning you can record the loop live, which I'm guessing you're familiar with from pedal loopers and the like. When using those, one does not trim the audio, but time the button presses, or sync them. Audio clips can also be used to playback loops, but then you'd need the audio file to be edited to already function like a loop, as mentioned. So you simply prepare the loop beforehand using a kit.

    Its already been suggested to be able to trim start in audio clips, whether that is possible is up to Rohan :)

    ~ Distinguished Delugate ᕕ( ◎_◎)ᕗ

  • 0
    darenagerdarenager Between a rack and a hardware placeBeta Tester Posts: 222

    Hello @neilbaldwin ! More often than not I either just import samples recorded elsewhere or use the kit method.

    The audio clips are serviceable for capturing synced loops, but I think they could do with some refinement for other scenarios, definitely trimming of start point, and I’d also like to see the ability to set any point to start and have the recording wrap accordingly, like the Octatrack can.

  • 0
    neilbaldwinneilbaldwin UKBeta Tester Posts: 143

    Someone on Reddit tipped me off that you can divide the tempo down by holding LEARN and then pressing and holding TEMPO then rotate until you get a sensible tempo. Works really well. Not that obvious though!

    (what I posted on Reddit)

    Create audio track
    Sample some input (have to press Record and then Play, or Play then Record...you know...)
    Enter Waveform View and trim the start and end
    Hold Tempo and then press a pad on the grid of the audio track. You will get a silly tempo.
    Hold learn, press down tempo and turn until you get the tempo division you were expecting.

  • 0
    rudolphrapidrudolphrapid Beta Tester Posts: 129

    I think the Audio Clips were not implemented in its "general" meaning. This new kind of clip has been introduced mostly for looping and not as a real alternative to the Kit. The common sample recording/editing tasks should still be done in Kit.

  • 0
    AndrevonAndrevon FrancePosts: 8

    I'm completely lost with the sample management.

    I would like to record either the outputs or the Stereo ins into an audio clip. OK.
    I create an audio clip, learn its input as Stereo (or Output). I press record then play.
    There's a count in, then the record begins and my audio clip is filled with the sample recorded.

    Two problems start here:

    • I haven't find a way to save the audio clip (in arranger view I can name it but that's all, the clip is nowhere)
    • I'd like to use the sample in a synth to play with it and to get access to all the synth parameter. Before the update, I had to grab them in the Temp folder, but now the access is denied. I can't find a way to reach my sample.

    I don't want to record in a Kit or a Synth directly, as there's no way to launch the record in tempo with the Play button.

    Am I missing something ?

  • 0
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 1,017

    @Andrevon said:
    I'm completely lost with the sample management.

    I would like to record either the outputs or the Stereo ins into an audio clip. OK.
    I create an audio clip, learn its input as Stereo (or Output). I press record then play.
    There's a count in, then the record begins and my audio clip is filled with the sample recorded.

    Two problems start here:

    • I haven't find a way to save the audio clip (in arranger view I can name it but that's all, the clip is nowhere)
    • I'd like to use the sample in a synth to play with it and to get access to all the synth parameter. Before the update, I had to grab them in the Temp folder, but now the access is denied. I can't find a way to reach my sample.

    I don't want to record in a Kit or a Synth directly, as there's no way to launch the record in tempo with the Play button.

    Am I missing something ?

    Audio clips are saved to the CLIPS folder when you save a song (similar to Boss RC-505 for example), until then they are in the TEMP folder.

    ~ Distinguished Delugate ᕕ( ◎_◎)ᕗ

  • 0
    AndrevonAndrevon FrancePosts: 8

    So obvious that I didn't even think about it...
    Thank you so much for your help ! ;)

  • 0
    IcoustikIcoustik NorwayModerator, Beta Tester, Mentor Posts: 1,017

    @Andrevon said:
    So obvious that I didn't even think about it...
    Thank you so much for your help ! ;)

    Good shit!

    ~ Distinguished Delugate ᕕ( ◎_◎)ᕗ

  • 0
    EddyEddy Cologne, GermanyBeta Tester Posts: 292

    @neilbaldwin said:
    Someone on Reddit tipped me off that you can divide the tempo down by holding LEARN and then pressing and holding TEMPO then rotate until you get a sensible tempo. Works really well. Not that obvious though!

    (what I posted on Reddit)

    Create audio track
    Sample some input (have to press Record and then Play, or Play then Record...you know...)
    Enter Waveform View and trim the start and end
    Hold Tempo and then press a pad on the grid of the audio track. You will get a silly tempo.
    Hold learn, press down tempo and turn until you get the tempo division you were expecting.

    First: I can´t trim start and end on recorded audio, it is a temp clip so I can just trim the end.

    or did you mean this workflow done in a new kit?

    (By the way: What does 'Interpolation' do? (Shortcut under Waveform top left))

  • 0
    EddyEddy Cologne, GermanyBeta Tester Posts: 292

    (By the way: What does 'Interpolation' do? (Shortcut under Waveform top left))

    From the Manual:
    Interpolation ‘INTE’*
    Sample interpolation method used for time stretching. Options
    are ‘SINC’ (high quality 16-point windowed sinc) and ‘LINEar’
    (low quality linear interpolation).

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