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Controlling a kit via midi / do I have to assign each pad to a key??

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GrappaduraGrappadura GermanyPosts: 31

Do I really have to assign all deluge pads to each key separetly? How can I just assign the whole keyboard to play the whole pads?

Post edited by Grappadura on

Comments

  • 0
    GrappaduraGrappadura GermanyPosts: 31

    Didn´t this use to be easier?

  • 0
    rczrcz NYPosts: 33

    In kit yes you do... Here is my suggested solution.

    hold learn

    hold 2 pads over the range of pads you want or 1 current funtionality.

    release learn and press a note like in a synth track and that midi channel is learned.

    also synthtopia.com/content/2019/01/18/midi-2-0-promises-auto-configuration-extended-resolution-tighter-timing-backward-compatibility/

    !!!

  • 0
    amiga909amiga909 SwitzerlandPosts: 575

    @rcz said:
    In kit yes you do... Here is my suggested solution.

    hold learn

    hold 2 pads over the range of pads you want or 1 current funtionality.

    release learn and press a
    also synthtopia.com/content/2019/01/18/midi-2-0-promises-auto-configuration-extended-resolution-tighter-timing-backward-compatibility/

    !!!

    hot news! thanks rcz.

    from midi.org
    `
    MIDI Capability Inquiry

    MIDI has been a successful tool for more than 3 decades. The features of MIDI 1.0 continue to work well.

    The basic semantic language of music does not change and as a result the existing definitions of MIDI as musical control messages continue to work remarkably well.

    However, MIDI has not changed to fully take advantage of the new technical environment around it. We want to expand the feature set of MIDI capabilities.

    At the same time, we recognize there are several key hurdles and requirements to consider as we make any additions to MIDI:

    •Backwards compatibility is a key requirement. Our users expect new MIDI devices to work seamlessly with MIDI devices sold over the past 33 years.

    •All MIDI Status Bytes are defined. The opcodes and data payloads are defined. It is difficult to define any new message types or change the format of the existing MIDI messages.

    Expanding MIDI with new features requires a new protocol with extended MIDI messages. To protect backwards compatibility in an environment with expanded features, devices need to confirm the capabilities of other connected devices. When 2 devices are connected to each other, they use MIDI 1.0 and confirm each other's capabilities before using expanded features. If both devices share support for the same expanded MIDI features they can agree to use those expanded MIDI features. MIDI-CI provides this mechanism.

    MIDI-CI: Solution for Expanding MIDI while Protecting Backwards Compatibility:

    MIDI Capability Inquiry (MIDI-CI) is a mechanism to allow us to expand MIDI with new features while protecting backward compatibility with MIDI devices that do not understand these newly defined features.

    MIDI-CI separates older MIDI products from newer products with new capabilities and provides a mechanism for two MIDI devices to understand what new capabilities are supported.

    MIDI-CI assumes and requires bidirectional communication. Once a MIDI-CI connection is established between devices, query and response messages define what capabilities each device has.

    MIDI-CI then negotiates or auto-configures to use those features that are common between the devices. MIDI-CI provides test mechanisms when enabling new features. If a test fails, then devices fall back to using MIDI 1.0 for that feature. MIDI-CI improves MIDI capabilities in several key areas.

    MIDI-CI allows devices to use an expanded MIDI protocol with high resolution and multiple per note controllers. It allows for incremental adoption of new MIDI features by providing a fallback to MIDI 1.0 devices in all cases.

    MIDI-CI Includes Queries for 3 major areas of expanded MIDI functionality:

    1. Protocol Negotiation

    2. Profile Configuration

    3. Property Exchange

    `

    jesus, the protocol hasnt changed since its introduction 1983.
    some companies added new midi standards like GM but this is something totallz different.
    with midi 2.0 u dont need 2 cables anymore.
    guess it will take some more years until this is implemented in most gear though..

  • 0
    funkymothersfunkymothers LondonPosts: 28

    @rcz said:
    In kit yes you do... Here is my suggested solution.

    hold learn

    hold 2 pads over the range of pads you want or 1 current funtionality.

    release learn and press a note like in a synth track and that midi channel is learned.

    also synthtopia.com/content/2019/01/18/midi-2-0-promises-auto-configuration-extended-resolution-tighter-timing-backward-compatibility/

    !!!

    Sorry, would you be able to explain that again, please?
    I am in a similar situation. My goal is to be able to trigger KITs from a pad controller. I have an AKAI MPD226 and it would lend itself really well to finger drumming sequences into the Deluge sequencer. Having 16 pads would allow me to live-record 16 sounds which is otherwise not possible with the Deluge.

    My plan is to use the new load folder command to quickly create KITs - but - if I have to manually assign the notes for every pad in a kit and for every kit I am creating then that would be an insane amount of work.

  • 0
    rczrcz NYPosts: 33

    You will have to assign each pad individually at least for the first time. After you can open an existing already assigned kit and change the sample on each pad, the mapping should stay.

  • 0
    fryyyyfryyyy germanyPosts: 150

    You can load the kit in http://forums.synthstrom.com/discussion/comment/7166 and then assign a midi CH to the entire kit. I'm not sure if it works with deluge v2.x though

  • 0
    funkymothersfunkymothers LondonPosts: 28

    @rcz said:
    You will have to assign each pad individually at least for the first time. After you can open an existing already assigned kit and change the sample on each pad, the mapping should stay.

    It does not work that way as I have just found out. The note assignment stays in place regardless of the kit - so you assign the MIDI notes via learn once and they are maintained when you switch kits. That is a good idea in principle as it means that you do not need to assign notes for each kit you want to trigger from an external controller.

    However, the drawback is that as the note assignment is not saved on a per kit basis any assignments are lost when you turn off the machine.

    This approach seems counter intuitive to me. The great thing about the internal sequencer is that when you switch a track from SYNTH to MIDI you can easily record the pattern into an external sequencer with the correct notes - the same is true for switching from KIT to MIDI. So surely it would make sense to have the option of choosing a global MIDI channel for KIT tracks in the same way as is implemented for SYNTH tracks?

    Perhaps I am missing something?

    @fryyyy said:
    You can load the kit in http://forums.synthstrom.com/discussion/comment/7166 and then assign a midi CH to the entire kit. I'm not sure if it works with deluge v2.x though

    Wow - that looks great - well done and thank you for sharing! I could not get this to work with my current KIT though (but cannot entirely rule out operator here).

  • 0
    rczrcz NYPosts: 33

    @funkymothers sorry to have mislead you, sounds like you are getting a handle on it though nice detailed reaponse. You might also be interested in this thread about how cloned tracks work http://forums.synthstrom.com/discussion/comment/7519#Comment_7519

  • 0
    amiga909amiga909 SwitzerlandPosts: 575

    @funkymothers said:

    However, the drawback is that as the note assignment is not saved on a per kit basis any assignments are lost when you turn off the machine.

    You can create a template song for yourself, like song 0 has some empty kits with learned midi params.

  • 0
    amiga909amiga909 SwitzerlandPosts: 575

    its not ideal though.
    cool if we could set a global remote midi channel and incoming data on that channel is routed to the active track in synth and kit mode. there is a suggestion thread somewhere for that.

  • 0
    funkymothersfunkymothers LondonPosts: 28

    @amiga909 said:

    @funkymothers said:

    However, the drawback is that as the note assignment is not saved on a per kit basis any assignments are lost when you turn off the machine.

    You can create a template song for yourself, like song 0 has some empty kits with learned midi params.

    That is a good tip, thank you. However, it will only help me with new kits I'll be creating. I have lots of older ones with a different track layout.

  • 0
    GrappaduraGrappadura GermanyPosts: 31

    I dont understand why the deluge won´t act just like in the other modes, why this special behaviour? Doesn´t make sense to me.

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