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Sidechain compressor improvements: SOLVED

0
amiga909amiga909 Switzerland

resolved, the user was the problem πŸ˜‰

Post edited by amiga909 on

Comments

  • 0
    Mr_ForkMr_Fork North Dakota

    Agreed. The fact that sidechain is available is amazing but it could certainly be improved. I'll give it a +1. I had not thought about using the sidechain as a gate effect but that totally makes sense.

  • 1
    Ian_JorgensenIan_Jorgensen Wellington, New ZealandStaff
    edited November 5

    problems
    Both resolved easily.

    1) sidechain source has to be a sample called β€œkick” or β€œbd”
    Nope. Sidechain source can be any sample you want. Just select the sample and then choose SIDECHAIN>SEND - dial in the amount upto 50. You can have multiple sources sending to the Sidechain at varying amounts. I do this ALL the time to create crazy shit. Ie, have a hihat sending 50 to the SC with a Kick sending 20 . Then I change the Sidechain>Sync, change the Attack and Release of the Sidechain, and also set the Sidechain to affecting some interesting paremeters like Freq or Trans, and siiiickkk.

    2) one can not mute the sidechain source, so if the kick sample isnt audible there is no sidechain compression
    Nope. Just turn down the volume, it will still send to the Sidechain, but you won't hear the volume of the sending sample. Select the sample you want to "mute", ie: Kick, and then just turn the volume down.

    Note.
    You need to explore the sidechain matrix my friend :) unleash the power of the Deluge, it's a beast when you get multiple different sources sending to the sidechain at varying amounts, having them on crazy syncs that don't make sense with short or long attack/releases, mute the sources and have some interesting shit being sent to sidechain. YEAH!

    Sorry, I planned to make a video on this, and it is on my agenda for 2019.

    Post edited by Ian_Jorgensen on
  • 0
    amiga909amiga909 Switzerland

    @Ian_Jorgensen thanks for the corrections. Yeah thats the stuff I am looking for, sweeeet.
    I'll dig into this. Possibly there is room for confusion if there is a "kick" sample playing, it seems to override stuff, will investigate.

  • 0
    amiga909amiga909 Switzerland

    yeah, all already works as wished. sorry, somehow i got stuck.

  • 0
    Mr_ForkMr_Fork North Dakota

    @Ian_Jorgensen Some great information. I'm coming from a strictly in the box setup. Took me a second to figure out what you were talking about there. The routing flexibility is truly amazing but, if I'm understanding this right, even though you are applying sidechain sends on individual sample elements the application is global. There isn't any way to specify which sidechained element I want applied if I understand it right. While I might want to use the sidechain to create a gate effect I couldn't do the gate effect AND have a separate sidechain for ducking. Is that correct?

  • 0
    p_watsp_wats Toronto

    1) sidechain source has to be a sample called β€œkick” or β€œbd”
    Nope. Sidechain source can be any sample you want. Just select the sample and then choose SIDECHAIN>SEND - dial in the amount upto 50. You can have multiple sources sending to the Sidechain at varying amounts. I do this ALL the time to create crazy shit. Ie, have a hihat sending 50 to the SC with a Kick sending 20 . Then I change the Sidechain>Sync, change the Attack and Release of the Sidechain, and also set the Sidechain to affecting some interesting paremeters like Freq or Trans, and siiiickkk.

    Woah! How did I miss this? I swear I read that the source had to be called "kick" or "bd" too, but this makes way more sense and will be a lot of fun to use. Awesome.

  • 0
    amiga909amiga909 Switzerland

    my fault was to try with synth tracks. sidechain send is only available for kits.

  • 0
    Ian_JorgensenIan_Jorgensen Wellington, New ZealandStaff

    @Mr_Fork said:
    @Ian_Jorgensen Some great information. I'm coming from a strictly in the box setup. Took me a second to figure out what you were talking about there. The routing flexibility is truly amazing but, if I'm understanding this right, even though you are applying sidechain sends on individual sample elements the application is global. There isn't any way to specify which sidechained element I want applied if I understand it right. While I might want to use the sidechain to create a gate effect I couldn't do the gate effect AND have a separate sidechain for ducking. Is that correct?

    That is correct. There is only one Sidechain "destination". You can send multiple sample sources to it and at varying amounts and you can have multiple parameters sending to the Sidechain but there is only one sidechain.

    You can achieve similar affects other ways? For example perhaps sending volume to an LFO? You have two LFOs. You could always record in motion of volume dips manually as well.

  • 0
    Mr_ForkMr_Fork North Dakota

    @Ian_Jorgensen Thanks for the reply. Yeah I thought of the LFO right away. Was the first thing I tried. I set LFO two to a square type and set it to volume. The clicking that it introduced though made it unusable. In fact it seems like any sudden automation you do to volume will result in a clicking sound. I notice it happening sometimes on the sidechain depending on the settings or sound, the lfo which I just mentioned, and per step automation (I tried using ghost notes to do a rhythmic gate on a drone sound but it was clicking pretty bad). So the issue isn't that there aren't options to do the gating. The issue is that I haven't found a way to do it where the audio doesn't click so much that it makes the track unusable.

  • 0
    amiga909amiga909 Switzerland

    well explained mr fork

  • 0
    Ian_JorgensenIan_Jorgensen Wellington, New ZealandStaff

    If you're getting clicking on a track and attack/release settings don't solve. Feel free to email us your song file and we can determine what's going on.

  • 0
    Mr_ForkMr_Fork North Dakota

    @Ian_Jorgensen said:
    If you're getting clicking on a track and attack/release settings don't solve. Feel free to email us your song file and we can determine what's going on.

    I sent you a project xml file your enquiries address.

    Here are the specifics. Track 1 used a synced LFO set to type square. I just used the default synth preset that loads when you make a new synth track. In immediately started clicking as I applied it to master volume. I left the value at 50 for how much is applied to master volume. The speed of the lfo didn't seem to matter. You mentioned that there are 2 lfos in your comment above and, while that is correct, only lfo one can be synced to a note value such as 8th note. LFO 2 says "soon" when you try and use the sync option. I could not get lfo 2 to pulse in time with the music. There doesn't seem to be enough fine adjustment. I guess that's not the point though. I tried it with LFO 2 as well and it clicked out of tempo just the same.

    Track 2 used ghost notes to manually create a pattern. Same clicking noise.

    Track 3 is using a negative sidechain and after fiddling around with it for a while I was able to get rid of the clicking sound however even at it's max negative setting I was not able to get the volume to completely drop out so while it did spike the volume it did still have an underlying drone sound that I could not get rid of due to the remaining volume that I could not drop out. Might be doing something wrong with that. I've never tried to do a reverse sidechain before. In addition I was not able to change the length of how long the triggered sidechain instance stayed open. So doing your typical "trance gate" pattern of short short long didn't seem to work.

    Anyway I really don't mind a little deep diving to get something to work. The problem at the moment is that I can't seem to find an option that does the trick. I'm willing to learn though. =)

    Thanks again for all your suggestions.

  • 0
    Ian_JorgensenIan_Jorgensen Wellington, New ZealandStaff

    Track "1": Patch the oscillator volume not the master volume to the LFO
    Track "2": Sorry, I can't work out what the issue is with this one, seems fine to me. Can you email me a file with JUST this track and with everything unmuted so I can hear it as you intend...sorry, because there were multiple tracks on the file you sent, I'm not sure exactly what ones you refer to
    Track "3": Dial the Sidechain>shape to a high value, then adjust Sidechain > Attack and release till you get it how you want :)

  • 0
    Mr_ForkMr_Fork North Dakota

    @Ian_Jorgensen said:
    Track "1": Patch the oscillator volume not the master volume to the LFO
    Track "2": Sorry, I can't work out what the issue is with this one, seems fine to me. Can you email me a file with JUST this track and with everything unmuted so I can hear it as you intend...sorry, because there were multiple tracks on the file you sent, I'm not sure exactly what ones you refer to
    Track "3": Dial the Sidechain>shape to a high value, then adjust Sidechain > Attack and release till you get it how you want :)

    For using the LFO you are right. That did fix it.

    For the second and third track I will send you individual projects. I will also send it to you using a lower frequency note so that the clicking stands out more. I've tried the manual automation trick several times now trying to figure out what is causing the click on different tracks and different projects.

    The third track again is something different and I will send you a separate track for that one as well. You can get rid of the clicking by adjusting parameters but you can't get the volume to drop out completely. At least I can't. Think of it as a volume envelope that has a small amount of sustain. That seems to be what the sidechain is. As the result you can't drop the volume out completely. I'm afraid that's the best I can describe it. When using a reverse sidechain to create a rhythmic gate the volume does not drop out 100% when the note isn't active. I'd say it drops about 85%. So what you're left with is a drone with automated volume spikes instead of a series of individual gated notes.

    I'll try and get those separated project files out for you tonight. Again Ian I very much appreciate all the help you've been giving on this. Gating is something I do on just about every track I write so getting this figured out would be wonderful.

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