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Maximum velocity set for an external midi controller?

1

The default velocity in the Deluge is 64 right? so i got my projects with the levels adjusting to this. Then when i hook up an external midi controller to play some chords for example, it sound so loud because is sending up to 127. Is there a way to set the maximum received velocity to less than 127? The only workaround i can think is turn up all the velocity data in my songs and then just decrease the main volume, but that will be quite tedious. Thanks

Comments

  • 1
    pfrfpfrf ca, u.s.a.

    I agree with you. 64 is of course the median velocity, but not an average velocity, and that’s a problem. When I play, and I don’t play hard, my controller (Roland A500 Pro) sends out velocities generally ranging from 70-120. I rarely see velocities as low as 64 coming out of a controller unless I play lightly.

    I wish Synthstrom could implement some sort of input velocity scaling. As it stands, I don’t use a MIDI controller to play the Deluge synth, it just overloads the synth, it doesn’t sound good. Maybe make a feature request in the Deluge Software Suggestions forum?

  • 0
    StijeStije Netherlands

    you can not send a velocity of 64 to the deluge?

  • 1
    pfrfpfrf ca, u.s.a.

    Yes, of course a value of 64 can be sent from an external source. In normal playing on any MIDI controller you’re going to generate velocity values much higher than 64- my controller generates values mostly between 70-120. Playing chords into the Deluge, with the Deluge internal synth set to receive average velocities of 64, causes the Deluge internal synth to distort.

    No other synth I own does this, and the output velocities sent from my MIDI keyboard cannot be modified from my keyboard (velocity curves don’t change this issue enough to compensate). The synth sounds fine if you play with only the most delicate, slight touch, or when played from the Deluge pads. I always play the Deluge synth from its pads to compensate.

    For me, the way I work, it isn’t a big issue but it could be for some. And users hooking up a MIDI controller to play might get the impression the synth doesn’t sound good.

  • 1
    amiga909amiga909 Switzerland
    edited August 30

    agree there is an issue but dont upvote because its not the problem controllers usually send more than 64. the problem is the quality of the presets. quite a few factory presets distort at full velo and reasonable polyphony. they are too loud.

    @pfrf said:
    I agree with you. 64 is of course the median velocity, but not an average velocity, and that’s a problem. When I play, and I don’t play hard, my controller (Roland A500 Pro) sends out velocities generally ranging from 70-120. I rarely see velocities as low as 64 coming out of a controller unless I play lightly.

    controllers and playing styles differ a lot, a decent controller has velo scaling for that reason, and thats where it should be done. I agree 64 is rather low. however, its not about external controllers its since presets are likely auditioned and programmed with velo 64. quite a few factory presets are too loud and distort at full velocity especially when played with high polyphony.

    @The_Owl said:
    The default velocity in the Deluge is 64 right?

    There is a default velocity for the onboard pads (track or keyboard mode) which is 64.
    my presets are often likely too loud because i use the Deluge pads.
    i would much prefer to audition a sound with velo 127, to make sure the sound doesnt distort.

    there should be a way to change the velocity for the Deluge pads. a global setting would do it for me.
    other suggestions have been made like using the rightmost columns in keyboard mode for playing onboard with velo control.

    there might be another issue too. Deluge synth engine seems a bit less advanced in handling polyphony. samples are fine, just synth mode seems to get too loud too fast when playing many voices. cant really say, my expensive highend VAs rarely give distorted sounds, even when treated with excessive polyphony. of course still a matter of how a preset is programmed too.

    Post edited by amiga909 on
  • 0
    pfrfpfrf ca, u.s.a.

    @amiga909,
    Those are interesting points. I hadn’t considered it from that point of view- it’s a matter of how the presets were made in the first place, on the Deluge or with a controller.

  • 0

    FYI by default the velocity modulates the master level of samples and synths 100% (a value of 50 on the deluge). I find backing this value down (shift + master level, then shift + velocity in the mod source section) to 20-30 makes the sounds more playable and not super touchy/ loud.

  • 0

    @Mafoo said:
    FYI by default the velocity modulates the master level of samples and synths 100% (a value of 50 on the deluge). I find backing this value down (shift + master level, then shift + velocity in the mod source section) to 20-30 makes the sounds more playable and not super touchy/ loud.

    Thanks, i think this will work, is this a global function or per preset? because if it's per preset it will be still a bit bothersome changing it while scrolling the presets

  • 1

    @The_Owl said:

    @Mafoo said:
    FYI by default the velocity modulates the master level of samples and synths 100% (a value of 50 on the deluge). I find backing this value down (shift + master level, then shift + velocity in the mod source section) to 20-30 makes the sounds more playable and not super touchy/ loud.

    Thanks, i think this will work, is this a global function or per preset? because if it's per preset it will be still a bit bothersome changing it while scrolling the presets

    I don't know for sure, but it seems like you have to adjust it for each preset. It would be great if you could edit it globally though because it is a bit bothersome to have to keep adjusting it every time you load a new sound.

  • 1
    o0_o0_ SANTA MONICA

    Most synth have the velocity mapped to modulate the VCA ( real or virtual ) from 0 to the Maximum VCA level set in the patch, which means they will never distord unless that was the intention of the sound designer in the first place. I think the problem is that the Deluge doesn't have that internal value and the velocity modulates the VCA directly, and not the VCA value.

  • 0
    amiga909amiga909 Switzerland

    @o0_ said:
    the velocity modulates the VCA directly, and not the VCA valuue

    why do u think this is the case?
    prewired velo mod does never exceed the value set in master vol afaik? velo mod 50 on master and master level 25 does give a range of 0-25, otherwise i’d consider it a bug.

  • 0
    o0_o0_ SANTA MONICA

    @amiga909 I'd encourage you to play the default patches on a velocity sensitive controller, without editing anything an you'll be surprised how many over them go into overdrive/distortion mode when there receive a midi velocity above 64.

    As other have pointed out average velocity ( playing normally ) on most velocity sensitive controllers usually give you values around 90-110 ( from a midi range 0-127 ), not 64. When sending those values to the Deluge, a lot of sounds are overdriving the VCA.

    Most other synths don't have that issue. play them with a controller, and the patches sound dynamic, not distorded.

  • 0

    It's not overdrive/ distortion mode, it's internal clipping as the default patches have had their volume setting (Master; gold knob) set without using a midi controller, i.e. @ velocity 64.

    Simply turn down the track volume/ make your own patches, or reduce the Velocity modulation of the volume (enter Master volume of a track, shift-press Velocity mod-source, and turn down the value)

  • 0
    amiga909amiga909 Switzerland

    @o0_ said:
    I'd encourage you to play the default patches on a velocity sensitive controller, without editing anything an you'll be surprised how many over them go into overdrive/distortion mode when there receive a midi velocity above 64.

    yes that is the case.
    so what can be done?
    ideas:

    • programming patches to work with velo 127 is the most obvious. factory presets should be adjusted by Synthstrom.
    • software update to allow making Deluge less loud. via a global config for backwards compatibility.
    • software update to somehow better prevent distortion.
  • 2
    AkenAken Montreal

    We should be able to change default velocity!

  • 0

    @Aken Like I said above here, we can. Reduce the Velocity mod value, by entering the 'Master vol' parameter of the track (via shortcut, or sound editor menu), then shift-pressing the 'Velocity mod source' over on the right side of the grid shortcuts.
    Turn down the Velocity value, or set it to 0 to have no velcocity sensitivity. Overwrite patches with your preferred setting.
    Simply save your template patch and duplicte that if you want to not repeat the process when you make new patches from scratch.

  • 0
    amiga909amiga909 Switzerland

    @Icoustik said:
    @Aken Like I said above here, we can.

    Good workaround. Still, there should be a way to change the default velocity of the internal keyboard.
    Plus, factory patches should be programmed to work if a user hooks up a standard midi keyboard.

  • 0
    IcoustikIcoustik Norway
    edited September 18

    The factory patches are NOT made to be used with midi controllers straight out of the box, whether or not they should've been depends on the user I think, but it makes sense either way.

    You CAN change the velocity of the internal keyboard by simply making 1 note, hold it & adjust velocity with the <>-knob to where you want it. All other pressed notes after that on the internal keyboard will always be on that last velocity you touched until you change it or touch a different one :)

    Post edited by Icoustik on
  • 0
    amiga909amiga909 Switzerland

    @Icoustik said:
    The factory patches are NOT made to be used with midi controllers straight out of the box, whether or not they should've been depends on the user I think, but it makes sense either way.

    You CAN change the velocity of the internal keyboard by simply making 1 note, hold it & adjust velocity with the <>-knob to where you want it. All other pressed notes after that on the internal keyboard will always be on that last velocity you touched until you change it or touch a different one :)

    yeah, agree it is a minor issue and there are workarounds.
    i dont care much about factory presets. dont agree it makes much sense to offer factory presets that dont work if you hook up a midi controller - a fairly reasonable use case. if i was working for Synthstrom i'd just fix them and prevent a new user hooks up a midi controller and gets a wtf experience.
    true about the last hold value, good workaround. i'd prefer a way to change the default setting of 64. having velo control in keyboard mode would extend the onboard expressiveness, more fun.

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