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Keep an eye on little and logical issues, and complete functions

16

I own my Deluge a while (since the first batch). So I experienced almost all updates, which has been very powerful and I really appreciate them a lot! From my point of view the biggest strength of Deluge is it’s directly intuitive handling and you can quickly program your current ideas.

On the other hand I got the impression that the focus of the updates is more concentrated to huge and new features - than to the little enhancements, i.e. completing/finishing functions, enhance the workflow and stuff like this...

So, there are many little things which doesn’t fit to the overall impression, little issues where I can’t see why they are still not working or not working intuitive.

To get an impression of what type of things I mean: for an unknown reason some parameters are not automatable (stutter fx, sample start/end pionts, reverse, mute/unmute..), gold knob‘s parameter values are still missing, deleting presets and samples is not possible, zoom levels of tracks or song view are not remembered, long notes still stop when launching a cloned track, no undo for many actions available, some fx are non sensitive and have a harsh low end, midi assignments just work for single patches not globally, copy all events (and the whole track) at once is missing, nudging single notes not possible, there is a fancy audio input but not a simple audio in thru, song mode has a bad overview, etc.

Of course there are more issues like that and of course not all are important for everyone. What I just like to say in summary is: please complete some functions and in common take a closer look to the little (but important) things.

Thanks

«1

Comments

  • 0

    So true!

  • 5
    minigoatminigoat cincinnati ohio usa

    +1
    Perfect the basics now, before they get buried and lost in too many new ideas. (at least that's how i would approach development.)
    ive been wondering lately, as i try to organize my song parts and sample and what-not, that maybe the deluge is kind of made to just embrace a chaotic sandbox mentality. Like its just not entirely designed to be one thing but at the same time it's just one thing, if that makes sense?
    It feels brilliant in the way you would be amazed at a tornado somehow creating a helicopter after passing thru a junk yard.
    So I don't know, maybe there's some master plan that requires sidesteps we would all insist were necessary, but prove irrelevant in the long run? Or it's just luck that its worked this well? A little of both I would guess.
    Anyways, thanks for the post @MK_0 .

  • 2
    muleskinnermuleskinner Bath, UK

    The things with these 'little things' is that for some people they're 'big things' and for others they're not even a 'thing' at all.

    There's been a ton of 'little things' fixed since I bought this machine (in the first batch) that have made a massive difference to my workflow. MIDI pitch bend and aftertouch, MIDI CC automation (maybe not so little that one), MIDI triggers from kits, multiple tracks to the same MIDI channel etc etc.

    There's also been some very big things, not least of which is the new arranger, which is a game-changer even in its first iteration.

    Not everything can be done at once. Just keep upvoting and have patience, young padawan.

    Noise, Noodles and Doodles: http://bit.ly/mrjonesthebutcher

  • 0
    amiga909amiga909 Switzerland

    Agreed, compressor sidechain is another thing. Still requires a sample with a specific name, really just a temporary workaround.

  • 0
    MK_0MK_0 R
    edited July 26

    @minigoat said:
    the deluge is kind of made to just embrace a chaotic sandbox mentality. Like its just not entirely designed to be one thing but at the same time it's just one thing, if that makes sense?

    This makes absolutely sense and I feel the same. Hope there is a masterplan which will eliminate this sandbox feeling soon.

    @muleskinner said:
    Not everything can be done at once. Just keep upvoting and have patience, young padawan.

    You didn’t get the point I was speaking about, I didn’t mean new features. So I will explain it one more time, young padawan.

    There are 2 kinds of developments.
    Developer A is more slowly than Dev B, because he invests a lot of time in research how to implement things to gain the most intuitive and musican friendly interface. The result is less functions, but they are working very smoothly and well thought out. The time of developer B is more concentrated to implement as many functions as possible, so everyone is happy (in theory). So, there is a huge amount of features, but it’s possible that they aren’t working same smoothly like the ones of Dev A.

    I would interpret the Deluge to category B. Tough, to be fair the Deluge also has its very brilliant aspects.

    As an example, let's take the undo redo function. There are many commands wich can’t be undone, so the user always need to remember which functions will be undone when hitting the button, otherwise there are happening unwanted results. This isn’t musician friendly. Why not completing this feature before adding new features? Same with many other features.

    Because we are speaking about step sequencers, lets compare the widespread Korg Electribe ESX-1 with the new Electribe 2. If you take a deeper look, it’s easy to recognize that the ESX-1 had another development philosophy than the Electribe 2. It seems that there were 2 completely different teams developing this 2 machines. ESX-1 has less functions but is well thought out. E2 has more functions, but in practice some are not working (well), or just working with a lot of pain.

    Hope that makes it more clearly for you. If not it’s also OK, of course.

    Post edited by MK_0 on
  • 2
    krunchrkrunchr Mainz, Germany

    @MK_0 Great posting, I totally agree. But I fear that a Type A developer will not change to a Type B developer.

  • 1

    Yes, I know what you mean. But maybe he could change to a A-B deveolper? ;)
    I just had the feeling to tell my thoughts, and if hopefully Rohan will recognise that users could also accept a slower development with less features/per time, but well tought out and finished implementation... maybe then he can be more relaxed (have not so much pressure, because of the huge amount of requests) when adding and completing features?

    May be just a dream.

  • 0

    +1

    Agreed. Please bring functions to completion and make others working more fluently (intuitive workflow oriented).

  • 0
    muleskinnermuleskinner Bath, UK

    @MK_0 said:
    You didn’t get the point I was speaking about, I didn’t mean new features. So I will explain it one more time, young padawan.

    Oh yes, I got it. I just don't agree with it. You misunderstand how software development works.

    In software development every release is 'finished' (with the exception of bugs - ie something not working as specified).

    Beyond that every piece of added functionality is a 'new feature'. Whether it's an augmentation of an existing piece of functionality or something totally new, it's all just more lines of code that need to be written.

    Users always say 'feature xxx isn't finished', or 'feature xxx isn't as expected' when what they mean is 'In my opinion feature xxx isn't finished' or 'feature xxx isn't working as I'd expect'.

    Ask everyone here what they consider 'finished' on the Deluge and you'll probably get as many different answers.

    I do agree with your general point about keeping things focussed, but again, the definition of 'focus' will vary from user to user!

    Noise, Noodles and Doodles: http://bit.ly/mrjonesthebutcher

  • 0
    minigoatminigoat cincinnati ohio usa
    edited July 29

    Only Synthstrom can say when the Deluge is "finished". We just have to each decide when were individualy satisfied with it.
    Seems we're just all in an interesting relationship since Rohan has kindly, publicly opened up development suggestions from the community, while at the same time keeping quiet regarding any big picture road map or long-term intent with what the Deluge is "ultimately" meant to do. So naturaly, this has created many opinions, along with many great suggestions that otherwise might not have surfaced.
    Im cool with just rolling with it though, cause even as it stands now, what Rohan has created holds its own, and the fact he's still at it, gathering more experience and new ideas is awesome.
    I wasnt knocking the possibility of it being developed from a "sandbox mentality". That's fine and amazing if thats the way he works. The main gist I was getting at, was the fact that we dont know how the process works, therfore we're a bit in the dark regarding the issues and requests we all bring forward.

    Post edited by minigoat on
  • 4
    EddyEddy Cologne

    hope someone in New Zealand finds motivation in this thoughts, the critics is completely justified.
    I am still not able to find a progressive workflow cause little things in Deluge are not brought to the end.

    But of course: We all love this machine and respect the work of the developers and they gave us the feeling that wishes and thoughts are listened to and yes the firmware history still gives me hope that the story is not yet at the end.

  • 1
    muleskinnermuleskinner Bath, UK

    Just a suggestion...

    This is a feature requests thread. What is posted in the original post is not a feature request, it's a piece of general advice to the Synthstrom team (and pretty wooly advice at that).

    If you want to see things improved then add a feature request for the specific thing(s) that are bugging you, e.g. 'Add 'Undo' functionality to xxx'. You may need to add a lot of requests - it doesn't matter.

    You'll have much better luck bringing your ideas to fruition this way than by pontificating on which one of two types of developer Rohan is. There's been a ton of FRs on this forum already crossed off the list, 'little' things and 'big' things.

    May you all get the machine you want this to be!

    Noise, Noodles and Doodles: http://bit.ly/mrjonesthebutcher

  • 3
    MK_0MK_0 R
    edited July 31

    Edited because of a potentially misunderstanding.

    This is a “Software Suggestions“ thread, so I wrote about a general suggestion for the development of the software, hoping that the Deluge team is taking it a bit to their heart in common. This thread can stay besides the usual feature requests for enhancing functionalities, which are (by the way) already existing.

    Of course everyone is free to post about a unfinished (or strange implemented) function in a separate new thread. But this topic should be about the common development.

    Post edited by MK_0 on
  • 0
    edited August 2

    +100
    you read my mind.

    Post edited by braindistortions on
  • 0
    MPrinsenMPrinsen Netherlands

    I have to say, I agree.

    For example: I could totally live without the arranger mode if the song mode had some small improvements, like: various launch modes per track (one shot, immediate, latch, synced etc), various sync modes per track (1 beat, 16 beats, current longest track, etc), 1 pad per track with all tracks visible and launchable/mutable in 1 screen without scrolling, etc. This makes live jamming a lot easier. Now I tend to use the arranger to program stuff what I would like to do live, but is too much of a hassle.

  • 0

    you’re right mk0, you can easily see it on facebook how development works. if people are asking about behaviors which are completely illogical and not intuitive, rohan is quiet in most cases. unfortunately he‘s mainly interested in fixing real bugs (errors in code). if things are not working, because of a strange programming, it will be rarely recognised.

    as far i can see the development already went in a strange direction, and it seems not changeable. that’s why I‘ll probably sell my deluge, if also the next updates aren’t clearly going in another direction (eliminate a lot of those illogical issues). would be nice if rohan could leave a statement, but i have no hope.

  • 0
    amiga909amiga909 Switzerland

    @olic not everything that seems illogical to you is illogical for others, for me its illogical how u know what people are asking here or how rohan reacts - having a profile with 5 visits in total :)

    i agree there are some low hanging fruits to collect and I agree i d like to have an opinion on that. ia feature might seem easy to implement but its not. for example triples delay options doesnt seem to be difficult at all. i feel the only way is the work together and upvote each others requests. and lets bump some of the top rated requests that didnt get any reply from Synthstrom yet. also means, i am opting for more effort in searching existing requests. so, i agree this thread is technically not a feature suggestion, drops a few examples leaving aside clarity what exactly should change and how.

  • 1
    o0_o0_ SANTA MONICA

    Do we have to go check out each other's profile?

  • 2

    @solipsvs said:
    kinda seems like you all talk down those who criticize the deluge and its all of a sudden “most people dont see it your way” when in reality, a real critical voice will just be silenced. whoever said we should expect censorship was right!

    That's not censorship - that's someone disagreeing with you.

    Noise, Noodles and Doodles: http://bit.ly/mrjonesthebutcher

  • -1
    amiga909amiga909 Switzerland

    @o0_ said:
    Do we have to go check out each other's profile?

    sorry if i'd accuse any legit users to have a fake profile.

    if there is a user that gets banned and keeps flooding this forum with fake profiles, i have to try to show admiration for relentless and selfless dedication for a better product :)

  • 0

    @amiga909 said:

    • having a profile with 5 visits in total :)

    oh, didnt know that my opinion is less important, because I only logged in 5 times. brilliant deduction, watson. not sure if you are familiar with the internet, but you can read sites (and this forum aswell) without be logged in. hope this isn’t a shock for you.

    @amiga909 said:
    i have to try to show admiration for relentless and selfless dedication for a better product :)

    now you’re funny! because i‘m writing not so much (for this i need to be logged in), i‘m a fake? thanks for being respectful. you’re a real hero, go and save the world!

    @o0_ said:
    Do we have to go check out each other's profile?

    yes it’s sad. some people have deadly boredom.

  • 0
    amiga909amiga909 Switzerland

    olic, ur probably right i was bored when i tried to be eloquent. 😉
    i apologize for bringing up the visit count thing, probably went over the top here and caused anger.
    however, maybe u want to give at least an example what you mean with behaviors [a lot] people ask and that don't seem to get discussed.
    post links for ur 3 most important feature requests and i'll upvote them for you.

  • 0

    well, apology accepted. but i didn‘t write about illogical behaviors “a lot“ people asked about. if it’s a very obviously issue (which works illogical because of a strange programming) i don’t think it’s necessary that “a lot“ people need to criticise it. it should be recognised and reconsidered by the developer anyway.

    however, i‘ll try to find such examples for you. though i find facebook very unclear when searching old comments. and also on fb i‘m manly reading, not writing.

  • 0

    ok i was searching for the issue “midi assignments are just related per preset (so you need to reassign every single preset and save it, it’s not working globally)“, which was discussed and criticised on fb very often. but i couldn’t find it, though if you’re on fb from time to time you already should have recognised it.

    of course this is just an example about a feature which has been implemented very strange. as far i can remember nobody see any advantage in this way it works. it’s more the opposite, it’s almost not usable. from what i read rohan never gave a statement if he‘s satisfied or if he like to change something.

    i think this example should be enough to explain what i meant (of course there are many more).

  • 2

    OK. So there's one example - why not add a feature request for it?

    Oh wait, there already is one. Have you upvoted it? Or maybe bump it by adding a constructive comment in that thread and bringing it to more people's attention? If it's really that in demand it'll have a ton of upvotes and it'll be on his radar.

    If it doesn't have a ton of upvotes then it's likely not many people give a sh*t, or they'd like to see it happen but have higher priorities (personally I'm in the latter category by YMMV).

    Rohan's getting hammered by these kind of requests left, right and centre. He rarely comments on the status of individual requests and I don't blame him, he'd be on this bloody forum all day instead of writing code!

    Noise, Noodles and Doodles: http://bit.ly/mrjonesthebutcher

  • 0
    minigoatminigoat cincinnati ohio usa

    Agreed @Muleskinner

  • 1

    muleskinner, it seems you can read. but you definitely can’t see the content i‘m (or other people) writing about. no need to tell me about upvotes and stuff like this (i don’t need midi controller assignments)! it was just an example for amiga909 to show what i meant.

    besides this, do you recognised that you always repeat yourself, bored as well?

    i‘m not. that’s why i hope you guys will understand that i don’t like to defend myself anymore. have fun.

  • 2
    MK_0MK_0 R
    edited August 8

    **@ All:

    WOW, what’s going on here?? A lot of hate, war and unnecessary spam! Unbelievable, please stop this NOW!

    And please keep this topic readable for the developers (and everyone else)! For this matter it’s absolutely not helpful if you just post spam and hate. If you like to fight against each other, do this somewhere else.

    Please consult just and only this 2 simple rules:

    1) ALWAYS stay on topic!
    2) Respect other opinions, and don’t push others on your own thoughts (above all: muleskinner and solipsvs)!

    Thanks**

    Post edited by MK_0 on
  • 6
    Ian_JorgensenIan_Jorgensen Wellington, New ZealandStaff

    We do exactly what you ask and have done so since the beginning, we continue to refine as well as develop, there are no plans to stop doing that.

  • 4

    Great to get any feedback Ian, thanks a lot! I’m really sure you’re doing your best. Just hope that future updates will be -a little bit more- focused on eliminating illogical behaviors, instead of many completely new and huge features (which are also understandable, because of other important requests and needed promotion, too).

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