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Nudge per MIDI channel (to combat individual device latency)

3
smbennsmbenn Brighton, UK

Hi - as per title I'm running a number of older machines (707, 727, TX81Z, etc), which are a little bit sluggish in processing MIDI and would really like a nudge on the Deluge at the MIDI channel level, rather than a global, as some machines are quicker than others at responding. I wouldn't want to slow down the more modern equipment commensurately.

Driving the Deluge from my 707 would kinda work but (a) this mean I can't store the MIDI notes in Deluge as I would have to store the patterns in the 707 and send a clock to the Deluge, and (b) I have other slow machines which would still suffer the same problem in a 707-led setup.

Cheers!

Post edited by smbenn on

Comments

  • 0
    VondragonnogginVondragonnoggin California, USA
    edited June 12

    Midi is pretty low overhead even for converted devices that were manufactured pre-midi. Unless you run really long cable runs, you shouldn’t have noticeable latency driving them directly from the Deluge. What latency numbers are you seeing? This isn’t a setup involving a computer and usb midi at all somewhere in the chain, right?

    What is the number of midi channels you are driving from the Deluge to external hardware also?

    Post edited by Vondragonnoggin on
  • 0
    smbennsmbenn Brighton, UK

    @Vondragonnoggin said:
    Midi is pretty low overhead even for converted devices that were manufactured pre-midi. Unless you run really long cable runs, you shouldn’t have noticeable latency driving them directly from the Deluge. What latency numbers are you seeing? This isn’t a setup involving a computer and usb midi at all somewhere in the chain, right?

    What is the number of midi channels you are driving from the Deluge to external hardware also?

    Will measure it tonight. Set up is Deluge to Kenton THRU25 with all devices on separate ports, cables are longish (c.10ft). my test is to run a kick to a modern setup (eurorack Ladik M211 to TipTop BD909), and simultaneously send a kick to the 707. Audible latency. Will play around a bit more this week.

  • 0
    VondragonnogginVondragonnoggin California, USA
    edited June 12

    What happens when you send on different midi channels vs same midi channels (duplicate track with different channel setup vs both on same midi channel) ? Is that a Korg 707? That’s not really an old device. You are layering kick drum sounds, right?
    The Kenton thru is active also, right?

    Post edited by Vondragonnoggin on
  • 0
    smbennsmbenn Brighton, UK
    edited June 12

    What happens when you send on different midi channels vs same midi channels (duplicate track with different channel setup vs both on same midi channel)

    I'll try that later and let you know.

    Is that a Korg 707? That’s not really an old device.

    Nope a Roland TR707. Came out in 1984, my model is from 1986. So pretty old in MIDI terms. (Checking the service manual reveals that CPU is a Hitachi HD6303XF 8-bit running at 1MHz although I don;t know what impact that would have.)

    You are layering kick drum sounds, right?

    Yup, I find it's the easiest way to check latency. 4 beats in the bar at 120 bpm.

    The Kenton thru is active also, right?

    Yes it is.

    Post edited by smbenn on
  • 0
    VondragonnogginVondragonnoggin California, USA

    You might need one of these - https://www.attackmagazine.com/reviews/gear-software/e-rm-multiclock/

    Does just what you are asking about specifically for the reason you are asking about it. Offsets up to 300ms available

  • 0
    VondragonnogginVondragonnoggin California, USA

    There is a used one up for sale on reverb.com right now too.

    Kind of expensive units but if you have era-mixed gear like you are describing, might be worth it to solve the headache in one fell swoop. :smile:

  • 0
    smbennsmbenn Brighton, UK

    Yeah, thanks, I saw these but very expensive! Hence the desire for the Deluge tweak.

  • 0
    VondragonnogginVondragonnoggin California, USA

    Yes - I see now. Why you said at midi channel level vs global. I’ll at least upvote it. I might be picking up a used 606 to go with my new 303 I’m receiving on Friday.

  • 0
    smbennsmbenn Brighton, UK

    Cheers! 606 a great little box and you can drive the 606 from the 303 - assuming that you're driving the 303 from a MIDI to DIN SYNC converter. (Or using the Deluge with the right cables!)

  • 1

    @Vondragonnoggin said:
    Midi is pretty low overhead even for converted devices that were manufactured pre-midi. Unless you run really long cable runs, you shouldn’t have noticeable latency driving them directly from the Deluge.

    Some HW synths are pretty laggy internally, even more modern ones from the 90's and 00's. Roland SH32 in Unison mode is a good example. the Elektron SIDstation is too.

  • 0
    jAcidjAcid Sverige

    UPVOTE! this is always an issue for us who are sensitive to timing errors, I have maybe 3-25ms latency in my all hardware rig and I use delays on input channels for correct it (making everything as laggy as the slowest unit), but a per channel noffset or similar would be amazing. Also midi clock offset would be nice.

  • -1
    alien_brainalien_brain this side of common sense

    dont listen to that von guy, typical know it all fanboy

    nice idea! im down. upvoted!

  • 0
    VondragonnogginVondragonnoggin California, USA
    edited June 14

    @alien_brain said:
    dont listen to that von guy, typical know it all fanboy

    nice idea! im down. upvoted!

    Haha. You a bitter fool. Find your safe space bruv

    Happy to see you are still reading my posts even though you say you put me on ignore.

    Don’t let me rent all the space in your head. Save room for your typical whining and maybe some creativity for the Deluge. It’s fanboi btw

    Post edited by Vondragonnoggin on
  • -1
    alien_brainalien_brain this side of common sense

    what? i cant hear you. i have you on block lol

  • 0
    VondragonnogginVondragonnoggin California, USA

    Sure ya do. I believe it!

  • -1
    alien_brainalien_brain this side of common sense

    i love it you keep talking but i cant hear you, this is ideal lol

  • 0
    VondragonnogginVondragonnoggin California, USA

    Me too! Lolol

  • -1
    alien_brainalien_brain this side of common sense

    this can actually have the effect of reducing midi timing jitter by moving events to their own tick on the sequence timeline as in the case of many events happening on the downbeat.

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